For my benefit, then, where in the song does one state you’re in Mxyzptlk mode and does one still have to go into every other measure and put a natural next to a C note?
I don’t have the sheet music, but I doubt it explicitly says anything like that, otherwise this would have been a short thread— one just has to know what rock music sounds like. The book I mentioned does include guidelines that sometimes help to identify the key; see Chapter 14 for example.
There isn’t really a key change, and there is no C sharp in the key signature, so I guess not?
I guess I’m in the minority here – I feel like the tension resolves when you get to the G in the phrase. The D has the most tension, the C is the transition to the home key, and then, ah, G, I can relax. Oh now, here comes D again!
Similar vibe in Life of Illusion by Joe Walsh, although in that case, it starts in G, but makes its way to, ahh, D. Now, I’m at home. That one is clearly in D to me (especially since it goes to the A, the five, as well).
ETA, thinking about this further, I’m even more firm in my thoughts – it’s going 5-4-1, super common progression in rock and blues, much more common than 1-Flat 7-4. I guess I should @minor7flat5.
Also, we have to take seriously the idea that chord loops can generate a “Schroedinger’s key”, in which case “key signatures may be used to minimize repeated accidentals in any passage or movement that consistently uses the same accidental pitches.”
To me, it’s in G for pretty much the reasons you give. I’ll muddy the waters further and say, “Seven Bridges Road,” does just about the same thing, but the “resolve” is D chord and the feel is definitely D.
If you wrote it in the key of D (two sharps), then, yes, you’d have to notate all the Cs as C-natural. If you write it in G (one sharp), then you don’t.
You know it’s in Mixolydian based on context. The melody notes all seem to like to resolve to D, and D does feel like the tonic to me, so if D is the tonic, then the way we resolve that natural C is to say it’s part of D mixolydian (a very common mode in rock music.)
Now, here’s something I’m not sure about. I do think that it’s typical to write modal music in the major or minor key signature of the mode and then add the accidentals. Meaning, the major modes (ionian, lydian, mixolydian) would typically be written out in their major key, and the accidentals added (none for ionian, #4 for lydian, b7 for mixolydian), and the minor modes (dorian, phrygian, aeolian, locrian) in the relative minor (which has b3, b6, b7). (So dorian gets a natural 6th, phrygian gets a b2, aeolian is the same as relative minor, and locrian is just weird, with a b2 and b5).
But there’s no reason not to just notate it with the accidentals in the signature. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this with Barkok, for instance, you has even had sharps and flats in the key signature of pieces (like an F sharp and a B flat or E flat).
So I do think typically, if Sweet Home Alabama were in D mixolydian, it’d usually be written out in D, with the C naturals notated everywhere, as messy as it is.
But I could be wrong about this. A Stack Exchange answer says write it out such that it requires the fewest accidentals (which I agree with.) But it also says that there doesn’t seem to be a universally agreed-upon convention. I’ve never really thought about how modal music is notated. I just play it. Or sometimes it’s just written out in C and there’s accidentals all over the place, as I remember from some jazz lead sheets.
Anybody have more experience in reading modal music and what is usual and what isn’t?
Well, might as well get the rest involved, @Locrian, @Mixolydian, @dorian.
Excellent post, thank you. My wife and I get into it constantly because she’e classically trained and I’m trying to read present-day sheet music and the Warner Bros. print whatever they darn well please.
I’m bowing out, now before I start in with the Lynyrd Skynyrd jokes (really hate them and their “music”).
NB Bartok was inspired, among other things, by non-classical music…
The book Inside Arabic Music says
Each composition in Arabic music is anchored in a starting maqam, and as such its key signature includes any sharps, flats, half-sharps, or half-flats used in that maqam’s scale. In addition to key signatures, the annotator may choose to write the maqam name above the staff, for clarity. In musical scores with frequent maqam changes (modulations), that can be a great help to the reader.
One example given is the hijaz mode in D—the key signature is E-flat, B-flat, F-sharp.
Sure, he had a lot of stuff from the Balkan area as well, which didn’t match up properly to Western traditions and tuning. I remember one of his pieces being notated with an F# and G# in the key signature (with no C# as one might expect from the Western tradition.)
Is Tommy Shaw the only guitarist that plays in Stygian mode?
@burpo_the_wonder_mutt : golf clap. 
I only just parsed this in my head – that’s what is sometimes called phyrigian dominant. If you build your modes off the harmonic minor scale, that would be the fifth mode. (I don’t really think in these terms when I play. I just know that if you play a flat 2 and a major 3 – starting with a major key --, you get something Middle Eastern sounding and then it sounds good with a b7 and either a normal or flat 6).
I don’t have much experience either. But I’ve seen both at various times. I get the impression that the oldest stuff tends to use the fewest flats and sharps. Newer stuff often uses the major or minor key signature, but then the latest stuff often experiments with going back to fewest flats/sharps.
And, then, of course, there’s that trend in certain circles (like film scores and such) to not use key signatures at all. The logic is that, for that type of musician, sight reading is easier with accidentals. Personally, I think it would make more sense to include a key signature and the (courtesy) accidentals, because some people do want to be able to easily orient themselves to a key. But apparently a lot of these musicians don’t need that.
Excellent discussion so far, folks. The discussion on Facebook was decidedly more divisive, with the G camp people not so keen to entertain other possibilities and vice-versa. Much more mature discussion at the SD. The fact that Ed King (co-writer, guitar soloist) says SWA is in G even though the producer disagreed and LS ends it on G in concert are fascinating to me as I hear it in D. I’m going by the do-re-mi nature of the melody (which never goes to a G) to support my belief. If G is the key, then the song uses mostly so-la-ti, an unusual choice for the melody I think. All the little riff turnaround on the second G chord also seem to point to D to my ears. Interesting song, and I’m guessing the writers didn’t actually think about it too much when they were writing. Whole sing took about 20 minutes apparently.
Another song that confounds expectations is “Last Friday Night” by Katy Perry. If you look at the melody, the song is quite clearly in the key of G, yet it never goes to a G chord even once. The progression is C-Am-Em-D and just keeps repeating that for the whole song. It doesn’t sound that odd to my ears, leaving out the tonic in the chord progression, but I wonder how many other songs out there completely omit the tonal chord of the key they’re in while playing around it? Songwriting can be fascinating.
Here you go. This showed up in my YouTube feed the other day:
Ed King co-wrote the tune, and played the solo in G. It’s a tough one to nail, lots of people can play the notes fast but they can’t stay in the pocket or whatever.
Trivia: It helps to wear headphones but if you listen closely, they sampled Neil Young’s “Southern Man” title lyric in the tune (right after Van Zant sings “I heard ole Neil put ‘er down”).
Cool examples! Though I must confess I’ve never heard many of the R’n’B songs before. I’ve also never thought of Dreams as being in Am. More like a weird F or maybe C.
King also mimics Young’s playing style with the extended shakes on the high G in the second half of the solo, which makes sense since the song is a non-tribute to Neil Young. That solo definitely feels more like the key of G to me than the rest of the song. Maybe that’s why the producer was a little flummoxed by the solo being in the “wrong” key.
I don’t know if it was mentioned in that video, but I think there’s a Taylor Swift song that is all IV-iv-V. I might be wrong – it may have just been just in the verses, but I coulda sworn there was one (that doesn’t get radio play) that just sticks there. “Wildest Dreams” has it in the verses, but the chorus hits the tonic. There’s another song where she does the IV-iv-V, but, like I said, maybe it does hit the tonic in the chorus. I just remember being a little surprised by it at first as I was taking the IV as the tonic and getting a I-iii-II out of it, which kind of confused me at first until I realized, wait, let’s contextualize it as starting on the IV. At any rate, that’s a pretty cool three-chord loop.