I’ll refresh your memory.
Reto: “But come on, that patriotism you guys are having in America is absolutely sick! Your attitude, your politics and your president will bring us world war III - and I don’t want that!”
Insignificant blathering it is, but stereotypically moronic too.
Interesting how some Europeans on this board* delight in broad and inaccurate swipes at Americans, but turn all peevish and sullen when the sallies are turned against them.
*note lack of sweeping generalization.
He’s a moron. He goes to a web site that is predominantly a travel photos page (lots and lots of pictures of Half Dome and Yosemite Falls) and then rattles on to me about “but why all this patriotism? Isn’t there any other beauty in america than the liberty statue and the flag? Well, that’s what americans probably wanna see right now…”
He’s a stereotyping MORON. He thinks that all Americans want to see are the Statue of Liberty, and the waving flag. But, alas, he makes these claims to the creator of a web site which has umpteen scenic photos pages of America, and yet only a few “patriotic” (red white and blue) pictures. Probably 1% or less of my site’s images are RWB. The rest are pictures of mountains, seashores, flowers, etc.
I get a lot of overseas visitors on my site. Yosemite is a very popular travel destination for (get this!) GERMANS! Every time I go to Yosemite, I always hear plenty of German being spoken. The Yosemite Visitor Center (and other shops in Yosemite) have tour books written in German. And French, and I forget what other language. Overseas visitors like my site because it is a good resource of Yosemite National Park information.
So, for this idiot to come to MY site with its hundreds of scenic photos and think that all Americans want to see is “red white and blue” is idiotic. He’s not actually paying attention to any reality—he hasn’t even digested the fact that my site is exactly the opposite of what he apparently thinks it is. He’s already made up his mind about Americans. If that is not stereotyping, what is?
(Hey, you’re German! You MUST have visited Yosemite by now! ALL Germans visit Yosemite, didn’t you hear?) 
Yeah, and what Jackmannii said. 
Sure, writing that part wasn’t too clever, since the collection makes clear there’s plenty of beautiful sites apart from you-know-what, but his general worries about American patriotism are not too far-fetched.
well, at least I’ve already visited Monument Valley and the Grand Canyon 
I can’t see a stereotype in this sentence, frankly. There IS a lot of patriotism, that’s a fact.
Why is he “worried” about American patriotism? What’s it to him? If it bothers him so much, then he should just stay away from American patriotic sites. No one is forcing him to cast his delicate eyes upon any examples of American Patriotism.
It is pretty pathetic when he has to bitch about my site being too patriotic, when it’s actually a pretty poor example of patriotic excess. I think he’s looking to be “worried”, and looking to be annoyed by anything American, and anything patriotic. He’s already made up his mind that we are “too patriotic”. Doesn’t matter what the actual facts and reality are.
How much is too much? Who gets to decide? And why is it “sick”?
I was listening to Rossini this afternoon, and for the first time I realized just how loathsome the “William Tell” overture really is. Here we have perhaps the most famous piece of music devoted to a patriotic theme (Swiss) ever written, and it…it glorifies patriotism! Not to mention the reckless shooting of lethal objects at people and fruit. The Swiss definitely have a lot to answer for here.
And let’s not forget the Russians, who glory in the “1812 Overture”. And the Finns, with Sibelius’ “Finlandia”. (We will omit mention of “Deutschland uber Alles” and the “Horst Wessel Song”). When it comes to swaggering patriotic themes, the U.S. is definitely underrepresented.
And did you see the disgusting manner in which people of many nations comported themselves during the World Cup? I was in England during early play, and you could hardly turn around without seeing St. George’s Cross flags fluttering all over the place. Revolting! And did you see news coverage of all that strutting and flag waving by people from countries with contending teams? Germany, even!! I am glad that Americans avoided the opportunity to strut their excess patriotism during the World Cup and that we didn’t see the reprehensible demonstrations here that went on elsewhere around the world.
Gah. Give me anarchy any day.
And some succulent veal knuckle.
I’m a little worried about the obsession that Germans have with David Hasselhoff. I think I’m going to scour the web for German sites that mention his name and then send them insulting e-mails. Is that okay with you, Schnitte?
It just seems as if American foreign policy is somwhat influenced by it.
The sick part was his own opinion. The statement that there is a lot is no stereotype.
And just what country’s foreign policy is not influenced by patriotism?
Oooooooo, to think that a nation might draw on popular support from citizens who believe in its core ideals. Tis’ monstrous, indeed. :rolleyes:
Schnitte, stubbornly repeating the same silliness while sticking your fingers in your ears to block out reason is not a virtue.
Come back when you have something valid to share beyond foolish predjudice.
He’s probably from Appenzell*, so maybe he’s just not used to women having a public voice.
No country’s should be. And hardly any other country’s is to the extent America’s. Examples are not too hard to find.
On the other hand, examples must be really, really hard to find. Or you’d have provided some.
Let’s face it, poor Schnitte doesn’t like America and/or its government’s policies. So he thinks its citizens should not express patriotism. Schnitte is apparently unable to comprehend that Americans can oppose policies they dislike while being patriotic in the face of terrorist threats. Schnitte is an ass. And he doesn’t even know how to yodel.
The beer isn’t bad, though.
The former is not true, the latter is.
This is true, I think so, yes.
I am not going to comment on the rest of your post.
OK, I’ve got it now.
Schnitte is fond of America but abhors its policies.
But it’s not alright for Americans to be fond of their country under any circumstances. Or at least they must be vewy vewy quiet about it, so to avoid hurting Schnitte’s feelings.
Veal knuckle-head status is confirmed! Nyuck-nyuck-nyuck!!!
I dunno…I’m patriotic in spite of our foreign policy, rather than because of it…or vice-versa, I suppose.
What is Reto so worried about? I’m sure once we decide that democracy is a real drag and adopt fascism, as many brilliant minds in Europe think we are headed for (Then again we haven’t let any fascist get 2nd place in presidential election but we are working on it), we can work out some kind of deal beneficial to both the US and Switzerland. I mean all the nastyness we have got planned against undesirables (we haven’t desided yet who is undesirable because we are pretty diverse lot, but that can come later) is gonna make the both of us lots of $$$$$. After all we need banks. We will be rolling in cash. No we will never attack hobbiton cause they can hide all the money we stole! Plus if we get caught they can pretend it never happened and keep the loot.
So we’re to understand that a country’s government should not be influenced by what would be the most favorable outcome for the very citizens who elected it to power? Is this a serious suggestion?
In other thoughts, this has come up with other European people I’ve met, and I’ve thought about it a bit.
What you have in Europe is kind of an apartment building arrangement of countries. They don’t like the same kinds of music, you can hear the baby crying through the walls at night, and the police got called to that party that loudly ran to 1 am. You learn to tiptoe a bit so you don’t step on any toes.
In the States, it’s more like being the only house on the block. You have the biggest frat membership of anybody from the university, about equal to rest combined. You live next to your much smaller sorority to the north, who pretty much participates in whatever you’re doing, and has learned to kind of enjoy all the commotion and noise. To the south is that poor extended family, which is spending so much time trying to make ends meet that it doesn’t really have time to pay attention or complain about much. They seem to really like the stuff the frat has, because they keep showing up to hang around for all the parties. For the most part this has come to be expected and even somewhat accepted.
The long and the short: It’s different in America. Deal with that. There’s no one over here to offend. We don’t care if the Canadians run Molson ads on their tv bellowing about how Canadian they are. Good for them, we say.
We think it’s funny that other countries would not think that they were pretty much the coolest place on earth. It’s kind of like preaching that you shouldn’t love your parents so much. Of course you do. It doesn’t matter that other people have parents who have done more for them; your parents are still the most special to you.
Cardinal, you stole my thunder. My thoughts exactly.
Now, I’m not going to join the pile jumping on poor Schnitte. I can understand why he thinks patriotism is abhorrent. Remember, folks. . .the last person who showed any kind of German patriotism was that short housepainter with the forelock and Charlie Chaplin moustache.
And look what that got them.
Zappo
Cardinal, while I like your analogy, I do think Schnitte has a point.
He doesn’t seem to get it across very well, so why don’t I give it a try - being European, and all-around swell guy that doesn’t wish any harm upon the United States.
It’s not that people in Europe aren’t used to American patriotism. There’s a whole sociological debate we can have about a young nation, a nation seeking for an identity that describes the sum of its parts, a nation still eager to appear favourable compared to the Old World from whence their ancestors came: the fact of the matter is that in a lot of cases (bear in mind that a lot of the exposure Europeans have to Americans are either the “Ugly American Tourists” or tough talking politicians), Americans tend to come across with an attitude that says “bigger, better, more”.
And that’s all fine. It’s easy to shrug off: we all know that the shorts-and-Nikon-wearing pensioner from Austin, TX, visiting the red light district in Amsterdam isn’t a spokesman for all Americans when he says cars/roads/houses/food portions are bigger back home. Furthermore, most Europeans know damn well that the patriotic layer is thin, and that both sides of the pond have a lot in common upon further, more personal, investigation. And lord knows: each and every European counrty has their subset of Ugly Dutchmen/Frenchmen/Germans/etc. as well.
In short: while a minor annoyance at times, this is not what the fuss in this thread is about.
Ever since 9-11, the American Government has taken a complete hardline approach in the war against terror. While no one here is going to pretend there is nothing to combat against, I think it’s fair to say that the whole “You’re with us, or you’re against us” approach isn’t going over really well on this side of the pond. Part of it is the person George W. Bush: it’s no big secret that he is a lot less liked than his predecessor. Generally, people regard him as a tough-talking cowboy that fucks up a lot, and doesn’t seem to care a whole lot about cooperation with the rest of the Western world: the Kyoto treaty springs to mind. But then, in times of trouble, the same GWB tells the world that it’s “with them or against them”.
Of course, every single European country complied, because on humanitarian grounds alone, it was obvious which side was “right” in this war. But that doesn’t mean that the juxtaposition in American foreign policy is appreciated. In short: if you want the rest of the world to be on your side, you have to show your commitment the other way around as well. And that’s something that has been lacking under GWB, at least when one considers the general European outlook on it currently.
I hope I expressed myself clearly enough - I’m not looking for an all out US vs. Euro flame war here, and I understand the role patriotism plays when a country is under fire, so to speak. I’m just trying to shed some light on it from my side of the Atlantic.