Do you believe that the Zimmerman’s verdict will lead to a proliferation of SYG laws?
I can’t see how the Zimmerman case matters. It wasn’t a SYG case at all. They never filed for a SYG hearing.
I do think people will be much more careful in using deadly force when threatened. It was an eye opener for me to see how little the self defense law protects citizens. Zimmerman has been through 16 months of pure hell, spent over a million bucks, and may still face a civil suit. It may be months or years before he can even return to a normal/private life.
If I’m in a dangerous situation my first response won’t be to pull the trigger. That indecision may get me killed, but I don’t want to be the next Zimmerman either.
I hate to say it, but you might be better off getting badly beaten and put in the hospital then to defend yourself in this country. You can recover from a beating in a few months. That’s better than a 16 month show trial.
Well you could probably avoid a lot of the shit Zimmerman got by not stalking people armed with a gun. Just sayin! And oh yah… he KILLED Trayvon Martin, and was declared innocent. You think that won’t be ringing bells in the head of every racist in SYG states?
You can get mugged by people of any race. They just found a 72 year old man’s body today after a 4 day search. They arrested 2 teens (18 and 17) both white. The poor guy was out in his yard watering his garden. They took him and his car. Killed him and dumped him in the woods. This was out in the country too and in an area usually considered safe. I know the area very well.
It’s a shame he wasn’t carrying a firearm that morning. His family wouldn’t be burying their father in a few days.
Most states already have a form of SYG if not by statute, by judicial precedent. Did you mean would there be a proliferation to the minority of states that don’t have such laws?
What?! Pull that trigger with the quickness and make sure to scream loudly so there is no ambiguity as to who is under attack. It is your right as an American!
**Mace-**Didn’t realize SYG states were the majority. IMO the verdict will make them universal.
They don’t. A majority of states have adopted some form of the Castle doctrine. SYG laws were explicitly crafted by extremists don’t like the idea that someone should be expected to justify use of deadly force.
Isn’t that a good thing? Don’t we want people to be very careful before they kill another human being?
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It was an eye opener for me to see how little the self defense law protects citizens. Zimmerman has been through 16 months of pure hell, spent over a million bucks, and may still face a civil suit. It may be months or years before he can even return to a normal/private life.
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And Martin? Those self defense laws were pretty tough on him.
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f I’m in a dangerous situation my first response won’t be to pull the trigger. That indecision may get me killed, but I don’t want to be the next Zimmerman either.
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Yes, if you’re in a dangerous situation THAT YOU PUT YOURSELF IN AND INITIATED, you do have to be more careful.
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hate to say it, but you might be better off getting badly beaten and put in the hospital then to defend yourself in this country. You can recover from a beating in a few months. That’s better than a 16 month show trial.
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Again, when you end up having to “defend yourself” from a situation YOU initiated and YOU escalated, you may end up on trial if you kill someone. I’m kinda OK with that.
Seriously. It was Zimmerman who was responsible for creating the problem.
What makes you conclude this? How do you know that (1) he would have been able to use the gun effectively or (2) it would not have been used against him?
There’s nothing magical about firearms.
Yes, they do. Your own cite says 50% have, as I said “some form of SYG if not by statute, by judicial precedent”. If you want me to say “half” instead of “most”, that’s fine. We just need one more to go that way, and it’s “most”.
I did not say that most states have a FL style SYG law.
I think the immunity aspect of SYG is what troubles me. I don’t care what your story is. If you kill someone, at the very least you should have to stand in front of a judge and tell it. If there’s no evidence, fine. But your ass should have to sweat a little. There should be no automatic free kills in this society.
I think the police botched the GZ case because they saw it as an SYG issue early-on. If George Zimmerman had been intoxicated that night, we wouldn’t still be talking about this case. But they didn’t collect his blood or urine…though they wasted no time doing so with the victim. Shit like this wouldn’t have happened if they had treated this case like any other murder investigation.
I anticipate SYG getting a lot more play in the future. Maybe it will take a couple of other messed-up cases for people to see how fucked up the law is.
I sincerely hope so. I hope every state gets a self-defense law as good as Florida’s. BTW, I used to consider FL’s “SYG” law to be the gold-standard, the law that other states should aspire to have. Now … given the precedent that if Al Sharpton doesn’t like your defensive action, you’ll wind up on trial for 2nd Degree Murder anyways, I’m not so sure FL has it quite right. There might be some improvements we need to make there.
Really? No matter what? You can’t concoct any set of circumstances in which someone should be left alone by the justice system after killing someone in self-defense?
SWG isn’t about “defense”, it’s about legalizing murder. It would be better described as “The Last Man Standing Law”. It’s about being able to walk up to someone and murder them and claim you were “standing your ground”.
And it’s implemented in a racist way as well; you are more likely to get off for killing black people (especially if you are white) than the other way around.
You haven’t actually read the SYG law in Florida, have you?
Hope so.
I’m fortunate in that I live in a place where we already have it and there’s very little chance it’ll go away.
We get civil immunity, too.
For the people who are opposed to SYG laws, and FL law in particular, can you identify what part of the statue you find objectionable?
I’m with monstro. Was someone justified in using deadly force? Then let it be objectively ruled upon for the record. It does not need to be an actual trial for murder, but part of what started this whole damned legal circus ball rolling in this case was the initial perception that the authorities took just the most cursory pro-forma glance at the situation and said “nothing to see here, everyone go home and carry on”. No. Dead body on the ground in the public streets after a confrontation that had been building up for a while merits the authority acting in such a way that it does not look as if they just don’t care that there’s a dead body on the ground.
Generally speaking, the purpose of a stand your ground law is to eliminate the duty to retreat. I believe that if retreat is possible in order to avoid the perceived harm, then you should not be allowed to use deadly force in self defense.
There are plenty of circumstances in which retreat would not be effective or plausible. I’m fine with there being no duty in those cases.
Either way, I think that anyone who kills someone else and there’s any question at all about whether it was a justified killing, at the very least there should be a thorough police and state attorney’s investigation.
Assuming that George Zimmerman really is not guilty of anything, I do not think subjecting him to a trial was in any way unjust. He killed an unarmed person out in the open when there were no other witnesses. He was at a place he chose to be at; he was in a confrontation he chose to initiate; he was carrying a deadly weapon he didn’t have to be carrying. Hell, yes, he should face a trial.
I took my CC class last year. Arkansas has the Castle Doctrine. We can defend ourselves in our home. Theres no SYG here. We are expected to retreat if possible (outside the home) unless we’re defending lives of others. Property is not a justified use of lethal force. If I see someone driving off with my truck theres nothing I can legally do except call 911.
I haven’t heard any strong interest in SYG here. The Zimmerman case would make it difficult to pass anyhow.