I have always been of the opinion that synthetic oil was an over hyped/not worth it upsell by oil change places.
Having purchased a new vehicle recently, I was told that synthetic was “required”. I scoffed at this and insisted on the standard oil change. I am used to the hard sell from the Jiffy Lube type places.
I called the Dodge dealership, hoping to get confirmation that I was wise and sage for dismissing this synthetic oil, only for them to tell me, that, yes, I do require full synthetic oil.
I can’t find anything in the owners manual that says I have to use Synthetic.
the price is about 3x a regular oil change.
So,
Is Jiffy Lube and the Dealership just upselling me? are new cars “required” to use synthetic oil these days? Is it a warranty issue?
I’d like to keep this a GQ thread, so no:
just go to auto zone and do it yourself, its cheaper
debates about how often one needs to change oil
or Synthetic vs regular oil debates
What does the manual (or oil cap) say? Just go with that. As for the price, it is going to be more expensive and the Jiffy Lube place is going to mark it up even more.
I don’t think calling the Dodge dealership is going to get you anywhere. They’re not likely to stray from the ‘official’ answer for liability reasons. You might have better luck on a Dodge forum.
Looking at the manual for a 2019 Charger, I see “For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395”. Here’s a page showing which oils are MS-6395, they’re not all synthetic.
Having said that (and noting the word ‘recommends’ and not ‘requires’) verify this yourself. It’s just what I came up with in a minute or two of looking around.
Also, when looking at the price, keep in mind that synthetics may require less frequent oil changes.
“requiring less oil changes” is ridiculous right there. It is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very rare for a vehicle to require oil change because the oil has worn out. Oil changes are required because the detergents are used up, or because the oil is full of rubbish.
Fully synthetic oils do not break down as easily as the viscosity modifier additives used in conventional multi-grade oils. So if your engine is running too hot, or is designed to run hot, a fully synthetic oil is an alternative to a single-grade oil. Racing engines used to use single-grade oils. Stock engines used for racing used to use fully-synthetic oils.
But the viscosity modifier additives used in conventional multi-grade oils break down really fast when they get too hot. It either works, or your engine locks up on your way home from work. It doesn’t work “half as long as a fully-synthetic oil”: It either works or it doesn’t work.
If something is “required” it means you have to use it. If it’s recommended it’s what the manufacturer would prefer you to use. And it could be for a variety of reasons. Maybe it really does work better. Maybe synthetic is what they used while testing it so they know it works. Maybe they got a kickback for saying it. Who knows. But if something isn’t ‘required’, you don’t have to use it.
For example, from the manual I found on like:
-Proper towing or lifting equipment is required
-The use of 91 or higher octane “Premium”
gasoline is required for in this engine. [for the 6.4L version
Compare that to:
-Mopar SAE 5W-20 engine oil approved to FCA Material
Standard MS-6395 such as Pennzoil, Shell Helix Ultra or
equivalent is recommended
-Rotation of these tires per the vehicle scheduled
maintenance is highly recommended
-Mopar fluids, lubricants, parts, and accessories are available
from an authorized dealer. They are recommended…
-It is recommended that
pets be restrained in the rear seat
The engineers/manufacturers/technical writers use deliberately use the word recommended or required. You may void your warranty by ignoring a requirement, but not by ignoring a recommendation.
There are some cases where the viscosity of oil needed is only available in synthetic (they are generally better oils). Consumer Reports has some good info (I’ve got a couple mechanics in the family that have told me most of the same things).
yeah, stuff like 0W-20, 5W-20, or wide-range stuff like 5W-50 is almost sure to be synthetic.
as to the OP’s question, if the owner’s manual doesn’t say synthetic is required, then it isn’t. all that matters is that you use the correct viscosity and API service grade.
Just to add, some engines have known issues (such as the variable valve timing in the Nissan 4 cyl 2.5?), and although the manufacturer may just recommend and not require synthetic oil, it may be overall better to use it, and perhaps should be required for that reason, however making that change official would be akin to a admitting they made a mistake and open them up for liability or a expensive recall. In that some engines are bulletproof and you could most likely use bacon grease for oil for all it cares, others are delicate flowers of technology to get the most out of the engine and get the perfect burn.
Modern cars come with the recommendation to use synthetic oils. It would be better to use them in a new vehicle, as it does not (should not) lose oil, and synthetic does last longer, meaning longer between oil changes.
Just about any car could use synthetic oil, but never mix it with standard oils. If your engine starts burning oil and you want to change over to something cheaper, flush out all the old oil.
By the time my Audi 80 was old enough to vote I had to keep a one liter bottle of oil to top up on long journeys (500 miles across Germany). I think the filter must have got very dirty.
There was a time when synthetic oils were pricey, and it made sense to evaluate the cost vs. benefit between using a standard oil vs. synthetic oil. But the price of synthetic oil has dramatically decreased over the past decade, to the point where you may as well use synthetic oil regardless of anything else. (At least if you change your own oil. Not sure about a professional garage.) The most important thing is to use the viscosity recommended in the manual.
FTR, I buy all my oil at Walmart. I can buy a 5 quart jug of synthetic for around $22. That’s pretty cheap.
I used to use semi-synthetic as a sort of compromise, but the nearby lube place no longer offers it. I would guess it to be some combination of falling prices of pure synthetic and marginal benefits of semi-synthetic over the ordinary cheap stuff. So as of the last oil change, I’m now on 100% synthetic. I don’t remember the exact cost of the last oil change, but it didn’t strike me as particularly unusual, so any higher cost was pretty minimal, plus I can go longer between oil changes.
You spent how much on a 2019 Dodge…Why get hung up on the price of an oil change?
The dealer isn’t getting rich off telling you to use synthetic oil in your car. The stuff is more expensive but lasts longer. For peace of mind, go with what the dealer recommends and find other money saving economies in you life.
and synthetic does last longer, meaning longer between oil changes.
When independent third party consumer organisations have tested oil, they demonstrated that the “time between oil changes” has nothing to do with your oil lasting longer. Ordinary oil lasts almost indefinitely in use (including continuous stop start driving, and including normal temperature ranges), and the “oil change interval” is not defined by how long the oil lasts.
We can speculate that an engine might require more frequent oil changes for some other reason, or, like all services intervals, that the oil change interval takes into account the relative cost of service compared to benefit and compared to consumer expectations, but the one thing we do know is that normal multi-grade oil “lasts longer” than any kind of normal oil-replacement interval.
I actually work for a company that makes the additives which go into engine oils, and in fact I’m the guy responsible for the quality of our engine oil packages. So here’s the deal:
The OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer = car manufacturer) has “required” the use of synthetic oil if you want to make any claims under their manufacturer’s warranty.
Since by using a non-synthetic oil you have already voided that yourself, you may as well continue using the non-synthetic oil. If you make a claim against the warranty, and they challenge it, you will need to provide proof that your oil changes used synthetic oil. Maybe you would pay a lawyer to wiggle your way out of this, but seems unlikely. I don’t think this scenario comes up often, though, so you’re probably okay.
By the way, I use synthetic oil for my car because it has superior solubility for the additives which actually do the stuff you want your engine oil to do, and because the difference in price at current change intervals is absurdly tiny.
The time between oil changes (nowadays) is determined by how long it is expected that the various additives in the engine oil remain active. So, how long the antioxidants provide protection against corrosion, how long the dispersants and detergents keep soot & other byproducts from depositing on the crankcase surfaces, etc…
As it turns out, the thing that runs out first is the basicity that is in the engine oil to neutralize acidic byproducts of combustion and oil breakdown reactions. That base is usually provided by the detergent in the engine oil.
You could extend your oil change time by adding a top-treat of detergent – and this is often done for heavy duty engines, like semis and trucks – but that’s a bit fiddly and you would probably want to sample your oil and test to make sure the other components are still active.
Plus, doing so would probably void your manufacturer’s warranty.
“Just about any car could use synthetic oil, but never mix it with standard oils. If…you want to change over to something cheaper, flush out all the old oil.“
Wrong. There’s no problem in mixing synthetic oil with conventional oil, and no reason to flush out old oil. Hell, you can buy blended synthetic/conventional oil, already mixed for you.
Where/how are they doing that, if the owner’s manual merely “recommends” but does not say they “require” synthetic oil?
Legally, if the car manufacturer is going to void a warranty for not using some specific add-on, then they have to tell you that upfront, not slip it in later, after you make a claim. The 2019 Charger warranty (PDF), as near as I can tell, merely says to follow the maintenance guidelines in the owner’s manual (also PDF), which for the 3.6L engine says (p. 379 of PDF):
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395.
It depends what you mean by lasting longer. I cannot see any oil lasting indefinitely, ultimately the problem is that the heat and products of combustion change the oil and ultimately.reduce its lubricating capacity. The main reason for an oil change nowadays is to remove all the dirt that has accumulated.,and to an extent that the additives and detergents cannot cope with adequately any longer. The dirt also includes very fine particles of metal worn off the engine.
Has the conventional wisdom changed? I am aware that there are synthetic/natural oil mixes, but presumably chosen to match the synthetic part. All I have seen up to now says don’t mix the two by just pouring the one of top of the other.