We’re considering replacing our standard water heater with a tankless heater. Has anybody else done this, and if so, what has been your experience with repairs or problems? Please indicate how long you’ve had it.
We are familiar with the small, co-located tankless heaters used in Europe for decades, but in the US this technology has only been available (or affordable) since the early 90s. The biggest reason for replacement (aside from energy costs) is peace of mind. The heater is located in the basement, which we seldom access, and there is no floor drain down there. A leak could go undiscovered for a long period, particularly when we are on the road. Since it’s a finished space, we have a lot of stuff stored down there that would be ruined.
We are looking at a Ruud-Rheem unit and can benefit significantly from available energy rebates for installation, bringing the end cost to us down to about $1600, installed.
I have a tankless in my house.
First off if there is a leak from the pipes you will still get water everywhere.
In my case I had to upgrade the gas piping from 1/2" to 3/4" this was due to the size of the unit I installed. This was a pain in the ass.
I also had to relocate the water piping (not nearly so much work) This is because the tank style gets the water in from the top, the tankless gets it from the bottom.
You will probably also have to upgrade the vent system.
Overall I am very happy with the converstion, I would do it again.
Do some serious reading on the installation requirements. Upgrading the gas pipe and the vent might be a deal killer in a basement application.
If there are any other questions, feel free to ask.
How long have you had your unit? We had the plumber who would do the installation actually come over here and look at venting/piping issues and answer some of our questions. My main concerns are possible problems with the electronics, igniters, or other components of the system that might cause failure/repair issues. He said that he hasn’t seen many in all his years of installing, but then he’s trying to sell a product so what else would he say. Leaking pipes are not something I can do anything about, really. Most of the house is PEX, other than the incoming line, which is galvy, so leaking lines are a minimal concern.
I’m interested in this, too. Our gas hot water heater is quite old, and when we replace it, we’re thinking about going tankless. We want to put a large tub in a new bathroom in the basement, and we’d love it if we didn’t run out of hot water when the tub is half full.
Rick: there are screen filters at the water intakes that should be cleaned out every six months or so, depending on your piping and water hardness.
Crafter_man: yes, gas. It’s only a couple of years old, but the previous owners installed it, so we’re not out any money by replacing it.
hajario:: While it’s true that there are tax credits, it’s not quite that generous. Our cost after the tax credits (state and fed) is about $1600. The pre-credit cost is about $3300.
I bought my house 2.5 yrs ago and one of the few things the inspector red flagged was the water tank, which was 17 yrs old (7 yrs beyond its rated life). Needless to say, replacing it was a priority when I took possession. At first, I looked into just getting another tank but with all of the green energy rebates and credits the provincial & federal gov’ts were offering, as well as a $500 credit from the gas co. a tankless water heater only ended up being a few hundred dollars more than a high-efficiency hot water tank.
Like Rick above, the installers had to run a new, bigger gas line from the front of the house to the back which turned out to be a huge mess and took them almost an entire day. My basement was a mess anyway, so that didn’t matter so much but they also discovered a small leak in the line running to my gas dryer so I’m pretty darn glad I had them do it.
Two things you should be aware of, one good, one bad. I’ve found that I have to run the water longer for the water to heat up so there is a bit of wastage in that respect. On the good side, you can set the water temp lower. In traditional hot water tanks, you have to set the temp. at a min 140 deg in order to kill bacteria. This isn’t an issue with a tankless heater so you can set the temperature lower, thus saving even more gas. I have mine set at 110 most of the time, which is fine for most usages and the perfect temp for a bath or shower so I don’t have to fiddle with the taps to get it just right.
My gas bills have dropped substantially in the years since I got it, but that’s also due to the new high-eff furnace I had installed and the overall drop in natural gas prices so I can’t really give you a solid number on how much the tankless heater has saved me. Overall, I have no complaints and I’ll never go back to a traditional tank again.
I have a vacation cabin that has a tankless heater. My first one lasted almost 25 years before giving out, but that was primarily weekend use, and not every weekend at that.
We thought about upgrading to tankless about five years ago. The cost of a new gas line was sobering, and running a new vent would have required tearing into walls and either re-routing the line or constructing bump-outs into rooms to make room for the larger pipe in wall spaces already filled with sewer stacks and water pipes.
Ultimately, the deal-breaker was that the new heater would be in the same place as the old one and that it would take just as long to run the water to get hot water to the taps.
Point-of-use heaters would have eliminated that problem, but then we’d have three heaters scattered around the house that would all need gas lines and vents. Not a problem for new construction, but it would be a big mess in an existing house.
We took ours out and returned it to the store. With a tankless, the water is either hot or cold, no in between mixing stage.
We replaced the necessary piping, but the water pressure in our house (town?) wasn’t high enough, so the water would have to be on full blast to generate the heating element. And, if it got turned down even a little, it would go ice cold, because the water pressure wouldn’t be enough to kick on the heating element. Washing dishes became an exercise in insanity, because there was no choice about the water temp - it was either burning hot or ice cold.
I was quite disappointed, since I really water it to work out. So, in addition to your pipe diameter, make sure your water pressure is high enough and consistent enough to engage the heating element properly. And, ask about a return policy. Even without problems, it is a big change from using a traditional water heater.
The thing that also killed the idea for me, besides the fact that I have a fairly new and efficient standard heater, is the redoing of the gas lines.
You definitely won’t get hot water more quickly. There will be cold water in the lines that has to be flushed no matter what you have. The advantage is that it should save energy and you will never run out of hot water. This is good if you have a housefull of people who like to take showers at the same time.
We have a Rinnai, two years now and huge savings for us with our energy bills. I would suggest you get water tested for hardness etc, as the scale that precipitates out of our well water in the confined space of the tankless is clogging faucets here. Filtering and pre treating the water may clear that up.
For us it seems the hot water travels to the upstairs taps as fast as it ever did, and we never run out of hot water. I can get hot, cold warm, scalding, tepid anykind of temp water,
The installation took about two half days, for pipefitters to run a gas line and chnk out a hole int he wall for intake and exhaust. The rinnai takes up 1/3 of the space the 30 gal tank used to, we installed shelves in the space created. This is all in our 3/4’s bathroom, We will have to give up some our created linen space to install filtering equipment eventually. But we’ll never go back to the big tankard. For installation and the unit, the conversion to gas, I believe it was around $1500, not more than 2k for sure.
I’m having some second thoughts about this. I priced the model online and it was only about $900. Assuming a half-day’s work (their estimate) and materials plus profit and OH, I can only get up to about $2,000 max for the cost. They’re telling me $3300 total and $1600 to me after rebates. I intend to ask them how they are arriving at $3300, as it sounds very high to me. It would seem that I could go buy this thing off the shelf and have any plumber install it for much less.
Also, I’m a bit concerned by the comments on water pressure and gas lines. Are you guys talking a new gas line to the meter, or from the meter to the unit? Water hardness is not an issue in Portland, BTW.