Why?
Because one really doesn’t know if it is the police or just some rapist or other criminal trying to pull you over. This problem is especially exacerbated at night time.
(And they piss me off because, they’re hard to spot and avoid.)
Your first pooint is certainly valid.
Your second is… not.
And the way to ameliorate the first concern is for any driver to advise the officer approaching her car that she wants to drive to a well-lit, public area or to have a marked unit respond. Police in unmarked patrol cars are always willign to accede to such requests, for precisely the reaosn you mention.
I’ve heard of that, Bricker, only slightly different. The driver or a passenger, if they have a cell phone, can slow down (not stop), call 911 to verify that it is truly a peace officer, and pull over in a well-lit area once the identity is verified. The officer should not penalize a driver for doing so, for either a marked or unmarked car.
I’ve read the posts and watched the video. I guess it’s hard to resolve the question of the officer’s attitude, since it depends on tone of voice and his manner of speaking. If a police officer spoke to me like that, I’d think he was being a jerk. And it seemed to me that he acted like that from the very beginning, not just after the woman was giving him a hard time. I don’t recall the conversation verbatim, but, as an example, I recall that when the woman first questioned why she’d been stopped, he just looked away and said sarcastically, “Yeah, right, tell me how to do my job.” (I may not have it word for word).
Of course, the woman did not act appropriately either. The proper response would have been to cooperate, and then afterward, if she felt it necessary, lodge a complaint somewhere.
As someone else alluded to, I think what we’re seeing is two bad attitudes colliding, and then an escalation into violence. If either one of them had been courteous and mature, I doubt the woman would have been tasered, and I doubt the police officer would have found himself the subject of a news story.
Ok, I’ve read about 4 pages of this thread. I rarely participate in GD, but I have to come down on one side of this issue.
What the cop did was perfectly justified.
Every time we have one of these threads, we get a bunch of people saying that no matter what the cops do it’s over the top, that cops should always be nice, polit, gentlemen. And we always get at least one person (yBeaf, I’m looking at you) who claims that the whole police state is wrong anyway and roads should be free and there should be no stops for anything.
A) No matter what the cops do it’s over the top. Cops should be nice to us.
This is patently ridiculous, yet this is the impression one gets from these posters. Cops risk their lives every day for the rest of us. Isn’t that enough? Sure, there are bad apples, but I’d like to see you do any better. When you’re in a situation where someone is being hostile, best to get the person under control right away and then deal with the repercussions. In the current case, I can imagine the shitstorm that would have occured had the officers yanked her out of the car and beat her down.
B) Roads should be free and cops should do the minimum of the job.
I’m sorry, I don’t agree. I have been pulled over by a few cops in my life and while they’re not exactly nice, they have no reason to be if they think I’m breaking the law which they’re hired to keep. They’re neutral, and careful - they don’t know what’s going to be in the car. Just cooperate, most of the time all will be well.
I don’t want a state where I have to defend myself. I don’t want to carry a gun. I live in a civilized country and pay my taxes and expect the government to protect me and mine.
Cars are one of the most dangerous killers ever, and the roads *must * be regulated. Must be! If they were not regulated, the situation would be 1000 x worse.
Ok, now I’m stepping back out of GD. I had to say something though. **Bricker ** is right…it *was * warranted. No jackbooting.
I have been told by many people not to pull over for an unmarked police car if you are in an isolated area. I can’t help but think back to the Red Light Slasher - wasn’t that his name - who had police lights on his car but was a serial killer.
I don’t like unmarked police cars either…I don’t know if it’s really a cop or just some guy with an ego problem. As a woman, I would seriously be frightened to pull over.
I’ve been told to ask for ID, but how am I supposed to know a fake ID from a real one? I’ve also been told to only open the window a crack, but that’s not really going to help if he’s got a gun.
I really wouldn’t bet on that. I think that an arrest would be highly likely. Especially if the person being pulled over was a minority male or had a ‘scuzzy’ appearence.
FWIW the ruse of using a fake unmarked police car is real. It’s happened locally in the case of sexual assaults in Lubbock TX and attempted sexual assaults (daytime BTW) in Roswell NM. I can certainly understand why women would be very reluctant to stop for an unmarked car.
And of course you have a cite for that happening?
The advice I gave was exactly what police had publicly advised after a rash of police impersonator incidents in the Northern Virginia area. I cannot imagine how police could give that advice in all sorts of news media and then arrest someone for following it.
Has it ever happened?
Police have advised the same thing in two localities near where I live due to criminals using the ruse. But if there wasn’t any such advisory, I doubt that doing as you’ve said would work out well.
IMO using unmarked cars for traffic enforcement (doing the actual pulling over with no intention of using a marked police vehicle in vehicle stops for traffic violations) already means that the department already doesn’t care about angering or scaring the public anyway.
I don’t have any linkable cites offhand about doing as you say with unmarked police vehicles, and it turning out badly. Just an opinion that it could (not unlike an opinion that something like what I describe never has happened or never would). Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m not. But I find little to disuade me of the opinion that I hold on this subject. I admit that I’m not much of debater. :o
But as far as the tazing in the OP, it sure seems justified IMO.
No thats pretty much right on. I’d point out that he said please twice when he first approached and asked her to close the door and when he said it a thrid time she said “I don’t have to” It was there I think she started off with the bad attitude. She rightly asked why she was pulled over and when he told her she was clocked going 51 in a 35. { 16 mph over} she told him he wasn’t allowed to use radar in a moving vehicle. Thats when he made the comment you noticed.
He could have said “Maam you’re incorrect it’s perfectly legal but you can lodge a complaint later if you don’t believe me” I really doubt that would have improved her attitude. If she had been polite {as you or I would likely be} and he had said what he did I would agree with you that he had been a bit of a jerk. Since she started off being a pain and continued to do so {while knowing she was dead wrong} I blame her. I don’t expect an officer to be extra patient and nice every time. He did his job professionaly.
I agree. If you knew full well you were speeding and got pulled over would you give the officer a hard time or take the ticket you knew you deserved?
In her case she was not only speeding, but had a broken windshield and a suspended license. Still she gave him lip. Why not just hang a big arrest me sign on the side of your car. Sheeesh.
When my son, who is a great guy, was a teenager he got busted for shoplifting a can of soda. He complained that the cop was kind of a rude jerk to him. My comment was “who committed the crime that made the officer be there?”
“Well I did”
“That makes it your fault” period.
When you break the law nobody is required to be polite to you. They shouldn’t be abusive, but they don’t have to be polite.
The point is they did use that advisory. It has to do with what is deemed reasonable.
The police don’t want to punish people for reasonable action.
A similar thing happened after the Rodney King incident. They felt it was reasonable for people to drive to a public to a public place before pulling over.
Anyone can install a light in their car. If an unmarked car is pulling you over in a secluded spot , especially at night. Slow down but don’t stop until you get to some people.
So, nobody’s going to find me a police brutality lawsuit where the plaintiff was awarded more than $500 for a black eye? Just one, that’s all I need.
Reading is fundamental
check out post #255
then post #258
Yes, reading is fundamental.
Not “well, it was only excessive assault & battery, so I assume it’s broken bones and noses.”
I hear Rodndey Kind got several million dollars, after all. I’m sure he had a black eye.
Rodney King.
Going back to his original question, not the rephrasing, and the post that prompted it , you’ll see that his challenge was easily met.
The point was that tasers are used to avoid a physical confrontation that can result in serious injuries when the person being arrested contunes to resist. Where do you suppose those lawsuits came from?
My challenge was for you to find a $500 plaintiff’s verdict for a black eye. I don’t give a damn about big judgments for big injuries, I merely challenge your utterly absurd claim about “lawsuits involving victims with broken noses and black eyes.”
I repeat: Utterly. Absurd.