OK - so how long should they wait? Do they park themselves until tomorrow? Should the police order a pizza and wait?
You tell me. Propose something. You’ve indicated at least tentative agreement that police could have taken more time to try and figure out what was going on. Now how about joining the constructive side of things, and offering your own proposal for a reasonable amount of time to spend attempting to investigate the situation?
I have asked repeatedly for the cop haters here to state what SHOULD be done in similar situations. Each time I have been greeted with what NOT to do, but not how to handle a tresspasser locked in the room who refuses to leave, who refuses to answer, and who pushes back when the door is finally forced.
I get it - you don’t ever want to use clubs, pepper spray, tasers or guns. You want the cops unarmed in life. Let them just smile and tip the hat. That works great in a TV depiction of Mayberry.
Here, however, we have an unknown situation that has to be dealt with. If you are going to critique and action, it is often best to propose a workable alternative of specific actions.
’bro suggested the badge under the door, and I agreed that is a great idea. It MIGHT have helped in this case with a deaf person.
Neither of you has given a specific recommendation of what to do when they still won’t come out, and are physically trying to stop the police from coming into the room.
With no response, give them a warning that I was going to use the pepper spray, and then use it after a a few minutes to try to force the person out of the room.
If they still don’t come out, kick the door in ready for anything. That might mean one of us with a taser and one with a gun. If, when kicking in the door the person lunges at us I hope to taser.
Actually, yes, I said exactly what they should have done. Maybe your brain censored it because I’m not a cop hater.
Your definition of exactly does not match mine. This is not a specific response of exactly how to respond:
Now, you are forcing the door and someone is forcing back. What are you going to do?
What about force the door open is ambiguous? The article says officers so we’re talking at least 2 grown men here. I knocked a door off its hinges when I was 14 or 15 years old and all of maybe 130lbs. And yes someone was behind it trying to prevent me from coming in. Someone much larger.
Edit: And again this is irrelevant to their specific situation because they declined attempting to resolve the situation calmly and rationally.
Not irrelevant at all.
So the two cops smash the door in. If they crack his skull doing so, is that OK with you? Smashing a door in on someone has a higher risk of injury than using pepper spray to incapacitate them.
How many doors have you smashed in on someone? I’m guessing zero, compared to my 1. In my not so humble opinion, you’re talking out of your ass.
And to boot, you’re essentially saying, “ok, they fucked up, now what do they do?” Well, there is no perfect answer, because the answer is that they shouldn’t have fucked up.
:rolleyes:
Ah, the old “strawman, strawman, dodge, rolleyes” combo. Did Cus D’amato pioneer that one, or was it Angelo Dundee? In any case, it’s got me on the ropes! Touché!
Given that you think I just “talk out of my ass,” I am not sure what you want at this point.
Ok, I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have assumed anything. Tell ya what: give me the cite where you found the information that forcing a door open on someone is more dangerous than pepper spraying them, and then we’ll compare it to pepper spray deaths and injuries, and if you’re right, I’ll apologize.
Alternatively: Stop ignoring the reality that the police in this case acted in a completely absurd, outrageous, and needlessly violent and escalatory manner, and admit that there are many ways the situation could’ve been better handled.
You keep saying that the cops didn’t know he wasn’t violent. Well they don’t know everyone that they pull over isn’t violent. Should all traffic stops begin with a tasing?
And when they realized he was disabled and they made a big boo-boo, did they try to mitigate the damages? No, they cuffed his ass and held him for a few hours, and allegedly laughed at him for being disabled.
There’s supporting the police, and giving them extra authority and powers, and giving them the benefit of the doubt, and I agree with all that, but then there’s just completely ignoring reality and common sense and blindly cheerleading everything they do, and I think that is ridiculous, and we’d live in a very scary society if everybody thought like that.
Well, I’ll take an apology for trying to label me as a cop hater. I have no great love for the police, but I don’t hate them. As I’ve said:
I believe police are a necessary component of a modern, civilized society. There’s no hate there.
And you’ve been given quite a few examples of things that could have been done that might have better resolved the situation, peacefully and without pain or injury to anyone involved.
Last, my name is Bo, not 'bro.
If they refuse to get out of the car upon being ordered to do so, and resist other efforts to pull them out (as this deaf guy resisted efforts to get him out of the rest room), then Tasering ought to be an option.
You allege that the police “fucked up” in forcing the door open. What do you suggest they should do instead?
Regards,
Shodan
I’m not going to keep answering this. Read the thread. I’ve only made a few posts here and all but one are on the lower part of the 2nd page.
To be honest, I am mouth-agape and disgusted that a deaf and mentally disabled man can get pepper-sprayed, tasered, and arrested for taking too long of a dump, and not only do you guys not think we need a serious review of police procedures, you’re perfectly ok with it and defending it.
I can’t wait until one of you is minding your own business one day and you get busted in on by multiple large men in dark uniforms who yell at you, shock your balls, and cuff your punk ass*. Send me a postcard from the personal hell you’ll be vacationing in for at least the next several days, if not the rest of your life. And good luck ever taking a dump again without staring at the door the way a rat stares at a cobra.
*Due to a misunderstanding, of course. They’re only following procedure and trying to protect themselves.
Is the concept law enforcement a novel idea that was recently forged after the invention of the taser? Really, I’d answer your question by directing them to do what police officers did 100 years ago.
It was “shit happens” right up to the point where the police resorted to violence for no reason. Then it was police brutality, and then wrongful arrest.
For all they knew it could have been a deaf guy taking a crap. They had no reason to suspect otherwise. In that situation, having “no idea what was going on” is not a reason for violence.
They also cannot operate assuming that everyone is a punk sniffing glue or some heavily armed dope fiend. Also note that even if either of these turned out to be the case, they still would have been wrong to resort to violence when they did.
Then you haven’t been reading. You quoted it for Christ’s sake!
Not with these taser happy thugs with badges roaming about.
They could have asked those who saw him enter the bathroom if they know anything about him. Even a description would be enough to begin asking other people in the area if they know anything about this person. Once they get his name, they would likely be able to find out all they needed to know about him. But it’s so much easier to just resort to violence instead of… you know… doing their job. But I guess a police officer isn’t really a job anymore, is it? These days it’s just a magic badge which gives you the right to go around barking orders at people and responding with violence when they fail to stroke your ego with their obedience.
It is not ‘dodging a question’ to post an answer which you choose to ignore or dismiss.
No reason to wait. They’ve got a problem and it’s their job to solve that problem. But as even the authoritarians here have admitted, a guy taking too long in the bathroom isn’t actually a problem. The only problem was that the cops had no idea what was going on, and THAT’S the problem they should have been trying to solve. Barking orders and attacking people with various weapons, is not an effective way of going about solving a problem like that.
And you were answered THE FIRST TIME by Snowboarder Bo REPEATING the suggestion he had made in the post immediately before the post where you asked this.
…but you ignored it
…again.
Nobody here is impressed by your invincible ignorance.
Nor yours.
Actually, the deaf guy only resisted having someone else come into the bathroom. He didn’t know who it was.
Or do you have a cite that he was actively resisting being pulled from the room? How did he manage to do that after being tasered 3 times? Do you have a cite to back up your assertion?
And who are you talking about when you say that
Who alleged, (or even hinted at, intimated, implied, or suggested) that?
BTW, I’m still waiting for you to answer the questions I posed to you in posts #74.