Taxes are Theft

Great Debates
1

Which is what it all boils down to. If you don’t pay, you go to jail.

The government is taking your hard earned property, by force, and giving it to people who didn’t work for it.

Spreading it around so that those who choose to be irresponsible get to benefit from those that aren’t.

Health care in the US is there for those that choose to have it. It might mean a smaller tv, fewer cable channels, or a house a bit further from the city. But it is there for those willing to choose responsibility over government handouts.

There will always be another “problem to solve.” Allowing taxation simply leads to more taxation. Once a program is in place, it will never be repealed. And it can’t be left to fail on it’s on merits, so funding (and taxes) must be increased. Then another problem arises that only taxes can solve, so throw another log onto the pile.

When raising taxes stops being politically profitable, the solution is to run deficits, which is just another way of saying we’re going to tax you plus interest in the future.

At some point, we need to realize the government can’t fix our problems. Then realize the government shouldn’t be fixing other people’s problems using my money. If you’ve got problems, deal with it. Using your own money and your own resources.

Let people have the money they earn, to succeed or fail on their own. If you want health insurance and medical care, work to earn income, and use that income to pay for it. If you have money left over get as big as tv as you can. It’s time to do away with this concept that you can be part of a society without working. And it’s unfortunate to say, but people need to be able to die because of their own bad choices.

Stop living in flood zones or below sea level, then expect the government to help you out. Stop surrounding yourself with bone-dry timber and being shocked there is a forest fire threatening your house. Earthquakes shouldn’t be a surprise if you’re living on a fault line. Tornadoes and lightening WILL strike the same place twice.

The world isn’t meant to be kind and gentle. If you take out a loan you will pay it back. If you enter a contract, you will honor it. If you lose your job you won’t have money unless you saved. If your house burns down or your car is totaled, no one else is going to pay to have it replaced.

No one is going to provide you insurance against the harshness of reality, it’s entirely up to you.

2

What goes around, comes around.

3

No they are not, despite the writings and rantings of a handful of semi-literate sociopaths.

4

Exactly, if you keep advocating theft, eventually you’ll get robbed.

5

So you don’t get anything of value back from the taxes you pay? That police and fire protection, those highways that you drive, the public libraries and schools…they’re not worth a bit of your income/property value?

6

So move to an island somewhere.

7

And Canada is SO close to having that giant revolution against their taxation, right? Millions of people are protesting your public healthcare? Surely you have daily riots in Ottawa over this and American media just isn’t reporting it to us down here!

8

Anyone with these beliefs who uses any public services at all, or supports any state provision of any service from the military to road networks is a hypocrite.

Why they all don’t just frack off to Somalia where they will find a country much more to their liking I don’t know.

9

I think “taxes are theft” is a perfectly valid assumption to make if you’re starting to develop a political philosophy. Or, it is a perfectly valid conclusion if one assumes an absolutes sense of property rights, as many Libertarians do. However, that is not to say that there aren’t other, equally valid assumptions that can be made about other forms of political philosophy in which taxes are not theft.

So, to answer the OP: yes or no, depending on what assumptions you start with.

10

Either you pay taxes to a government in which you have a voice, or you pay tribute to a local strongman who has enough muscle to beat out the other wannabe strongmen.

Which do you choose?

11

And this means we shouldn’t solve them? I’ll accept it as a given that the government backs up taxation with the threat of force. (I think that’s more or less indisputable.) I’m not going to assert that all problems should be solved with taxes and public money but you seem to be saying none of them should.

That’s not really true. It’s taking my property (well, my money) and giving it to a mixture of public services - some of which I use or benefit from - plus tons of other projects and people who know how to game the system, both rich and poor.

Poor people are lazy, etc. Got it.

Unless they can’t get it because they’re sick, or had it until their insurance company pulled the rug out from under them. Or yes, couldn’t afford it.

Then it’s game over, right? Because it’s not like taxes are a new concept.

So is the government able to fix problems or not? First you say it can’t, then you say it does, but it shouldn’t. I think you need to make up your mind on this one.

That’s what most people do.

And what happens if they fail? By definition, not everybody’s going to succeed.

No shit? Why didn’t I think perfectly brilliant solution? I mean it’s not like there are people who can’t afford the care they need (sometimes because they’re sick) - I thought that meant we sometimes have to make difficult decisions about what to do with our resources or how to deal with people who are very sick, but it turns out the whole deal has been solved. “Sorry, sickie, you should’ve planned ahead and been rich.”

Snort. What’s unemployment + underemployment at, 16 percent? You may want to bite your tongue on this argument for a year or two. Otherwise you might find yourself saying it to someone who can’t pay his bills because he’s out of work. Perhaps he’ll resent the implication that he’s lazy.

Yes, because… uh… why? ‘I don’t want to pay for it’ is an argument but not a very compelling one.

And if the government’s promised to help you out because it’s a basic part of the social contract and then it doesn’t, fuck you for not being able to afford a private jet.

It’s not meant to be anything. However we do have the capability to help each other. That’s pretty much why civilization exists in the first place. So the question is how we should assist each other. Your answer is ‘We shouldn’t if it takes any money out of my pocket.’ It seems to me you’re covering for this by assuming that everybody who doesn’t have it so good brought it on themselvse by laziness or stupidity, which sounds like bullshit to me.

12

This is not entirely true. I have a pre-existing condition as was unable to buy insurance in my state (or most states) at any price.

Not all tax money is redistributed to people that don’t work. Lots is spent on roads and schools (and useless things like killing people in other countries).

I think our taxes are way way too high and there is massive waste in government, but it is not all because of “redistribution”.

13

Why the hell do you live in that kind of society then? Jesus Christ, it’s not like Obama just invented taxes. Go some place else where people aren’t taxed and shut up. I mean, you’re obviously rich enough to afford to migrate, right? Or are you just a lazy bum?

14

What I love about people who spew this sort of philosophy (and I don’t know if emacknight is a believer or having some fun here) is that they always talk a great game until they end up in trouble. Then they start to soften, because hell, who’s going to help them?

What strikes me as the most egregious problem with this philosophy is that it is fundamentally selfish and completely self-serving (and short-sighted). And I have to agree with tagos, if you don’t like it here in socialist Canada, head on down to Somalia and live out your libertarian dreams.

15

I’m struggling right now because I’m out of work and am sleeping in my car. Can I crash at your pad until I get back on feet financially?

16

emacknight, serious question: Should people be able to fly on airplanes for free?

17

Could you really live in a society that had no taxes? I’m sure you could but would you really want to?
My morning commute would be about an hour instead of 15 minutes since I’m now taking the dirt road full of ruts at a max speed of 30 mph. I don’t go to work in the winter since there are no plows.
My home got broken into and all my stuff stolen for the 3rd time this year. I’d call the police but, well, there aren’t any police.
I’m hoping to teach my kids to read and write when I’m home at night. During the day they just hang out at home since there are no schools.
I’ve heard Canada may invade later this year. Not much we can do about it since we have no armed forces. Sure I’ve got my stockpile of guns in the basement but it’s hard going up against tanks.
But hey, it’s totally worth it since my paycheck doesn’t have a dime taken out of it for taxes. I’m as happy as a clam.

18

There is also the “Unabomber shack” option; the OP even has a head start on his own manifesto. Unfortunately, you may still need to squat on public land owned by the SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT, or on the private land of someone who may have just enough money left (after being robbed by the tax thieves) to afford shotgun shells for trespassers.

19

On the other side of the spectrum you have the claim “Property is theft” which packs just about as much rhetorical punch and is just about as useless. Implicit in your statement is the view that stealing is wrong, and giving benefit to those that don’t deserve it is wrong. This is based on a your own personal and view, and one that is held by society at large, and thus there are laws against it. But there is also a widely held view that protecting the weak and unfortunate is a good thing. Why is your view better than that?
History has shown us that a certain degree of collectivenss in society increases efficiency. Of course too much leads to stagnation repression etc… The question is how to get the right ratio. Society has also found that providing for the basic needs of the underclass is desirable. Those societies that ignore this find that the underclass is is perfectly happy to work hard to achieve what they need by any means necessary, and often find themselves torched by angry mobs and sent to the guillotine.

20

Taxes are the membership fee for living in a civilized society rather than a Hobbesian state of nature.