Teach me (and AudreyK) how to play Magic: The Gathering

Cafe Society
141

Okay, we’re back again! With more questions - one we’re not sure on, and a few that we are.

First the easy ones.

  1. Sacrificing. If I sacrifice a blood pet (sac., gain B) to a Nantuko Husk (+2/+2 for every creature sacrificed), I only gain the +2/+2 and not the black mana, huh?
  1. Flashback. Playing the flashback on a sorcery can only be played when one could play a sorcery, and not at “instant speed,” right?

Now the weirder ones.

  1. Status and the stack. Is creature status checked at the end of every spell that resolves, or only when the stack is resolved. For instance, I have a Nantuko Shade (2/1, B gain +1/+1 ueot). I attack, and tap out all my swamps to make him, say, 6/6. Can AudreyK play chaos charm (1 damage to target creature, among other possible effects) to him, knocking his toughness down to 0 before the pumping takes place, killing it? ('Cause that’d really suck.)

  2. One prodigal sorceror(sp?) vs. two llanowar elves, both attacking. Can I block one, put combat damage on the stack and “Tim” the other, killing both?

I think that’s it for now. Thanks in advance for the help.

And, Max, how’s that Pro Tour coming along? Kicking ass, chewing names, and taking bubble gum? (Mix metaphors? Who, me?)

142

As far as casual gaming goes, forget all these guys telling0 you to play with a 60 card deck.

My friends and I always had a blast with 100 card decks. The matches aren’t so quick, strategies aren’t dependent on one or two cards, and it gives you a lot more time to develop a strategy. It also makes for some epic attack and defense rounds.

Personally, I think you’ll learn the game better that way than by playing 10 minute matches with a quick kill decks. Not only is the pace slowed down, but you’ll be exposed to more cards and you’ll actually have a chance at getting out the really cool ones.

143

I respectfully disagree with soulmurk. 100 card deck can be fun, too, but 60 does not necessarilly mean a quick kill deck, just a deck that’s less likely to suffer from mana screw, and more likely to work together. 100 card deck vs. 100 card deck can be fun once in a while, but it takes extra effort to make it “click” and not stall. And stalling while you get trounced is not so fun. And 100 card deck vs. 60 card deck usually means victory for the 60 card deck.

Now, onto the questions:

Correct. The sacrifice is a cost. You only have one blood pet to sacrifice, so you can only afford to pay the cost of one of those abilities. Choose either the black mana or the +2/+2 on the husk, but not both.

Correct. It’s still a sorcery and still plays as one.

Yes, she can. Which is why you should never pump all your mana into your shade at once.

Here’s how you prevent it.
pump one mana into the shade, then pass priority.
Now Audrey must either pass or play choas charm.
a) If she passes, the pump resolves and the shade is now a 3/2, & safe from the chaos charm. Continue pumping and passing, letting each pump resolve before declaring the next one.
b) If she plays the chaos charm, respond to it with another pump. The 2nd pump will resolve first (last in first out) and when the Chaos charm resolves, it will do 1 damage to the 3/2 Shade. Then the original pump resolves, making the Shade 4/3.
Now, continue pumping and passing, letting each pump resolve before declaring the next one.

Since it’s a friendly game, if you like, you can agree that among yourselves “I pump my shade by X” is equivalent shorthand for “I pump and pass X times”.

Almost. You block one, THEN “Tim” the other, THEN put combat damge on the stack. (Tapped blockers still do damage). If you Tim after combat damage goes on the stack, it will still work, but you will take 1 damage from the unblocked (dead) elf.

144

I disagree with soulmurk, too. I think that it’s much easier to come up with a strategy with a smaller deck. For one thing, it’s easier to remember which cards are coming up.

I had a lot of fun this weekend playing 15-Card Highlander Magic. It’s a Magic variant where you play with 15 cards in a deck, there can only be one copy of each card (except basic land) in your deck, and you don’t automatically lose if you can’t draw a card. Strategy is very important, and I found it easier to plan ahead. Compare this to 5-Color Magic (decks of at least 250 cards using all five colors)…fun, but it’s much, much more difficult to have a strategy when every game seems like it’s being played with a different deck.

145

I want to jump in briefly. The way KKBattousai first described is perfectly legal, and is, in fact, sometimes the better play. For instance, if you block the way gonzoron describes, you do save a point of damage to yourself, but you run the risk of having your Prodigal Sorcerer killed (by Chaos Charm, for example) before its combat damage goes on the stack. It can still tap to kill an Elf, but the one that it blocks will survive. Each method, then, carries it’s benefits and drawbacks.

In general, it’s best to wait until the last possible moment before taking any action. Forcing your opponent to act first nets the biggest advantage.

I’m glad to see that you and AudreyK are still having fun with the game.

–
Justin

146

Thanks for asking :slight_smile:

The pro tour stop that I qualified for was in Chicago last month. I had some fabulously good luck day 1, played pretty well over all, and ended up in 41st place, winning $850. (I had really bad luck my last match, which was effectively an ante match for $2000. But I had really good luck the match before, so I can’t really complain).
There’s a good chance, although not a guarantee, that my rating is now high enough to qualify me for the next limited pro tour stop, which is in Yokohama in May, which should be exciting.

147

Agreed, I let a bit of my bias creep in. The choice of whether to “tim” after or before damage goes on the stack is a tactical decision between “two dead elves and 1 point of damage to me” vs. “two dead elves and 0 damage to me, unless my oponent has an instant point of damage from somewhere, which would save one of his elves.”

Of course, the great thing about this game is that you could keep extrapolating: what if your opponent has instead of Chaos Charm, a Refresh, or Shelter, etc…? Then you took a point of damage for nothing because one elf still survived. :wink: Unless you’ve got Glasses of Urza or the like, there’s no way of knowing the right move. (The problem as stated didn’t say how many cards were in hand, or how much mana was untapped either…)

148

Agreed, certainly. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that the way he described was legal and, on occasion, the right move. Your post could be read as saying that his way was simply wrong. I also wanted to show some of the possibilities, which can be guessed at by knowing what they tend to play, how much mana is available, what colors they have, etc.

You know, it’s really sad how much I enjoy dissecting a truly trivial part of a Magic game… Heh.

–
Justin

149

Heh. That is, for better or worse, quite the understatement. I mean, geez, mention Akroma, Angel of Wrath and AudreyK’s eyes light up and she starts breathing heavily. (Not that I’m a whole lot better - though I think I prefer the chromatic angel - but still.)

Thanks for the clarification on the “Tim” thing - I seem to remember reading/hearing/being told that tapped blocking creatures don’t do their combat damage, thus the stack order when I asked.

Also, speaking of creatures with “protection from” if I’m playing monored and have a creature with Protection White, and my opponent is playing monored with a creature with Protection Red, can the two creatures block each other with impunity?

And Max, congrats on your tournament performance! So for the Yokohama tourney (we have faith in you qualifying!), Wizards will fly you out and everything? That’s quite cool. (Even cooler if there are cheerleaders and groupies and such. Are there? :wink: )

150

Heh. That is, for better or worse, quite the understatement. I mean, geez, mention Akroma, Angel of Wrath and AudreyK’s eyes light up and she starts breathing heavily. (Not that I’m a whole lot better - though I think I prefer the chromatic angel - but still.)

Thanks for the clarification on the “Tim” thing - I seem to remember reading/hearing/being told that tapped blocking creatures don’t do their combat damage, thus the stack order when I asked.

Also, speaking of creatures with “protection from” if I’m playing monored and have a creature with Protection White, and my opponent is playing monored with a creature with Protection Red, can the two creatures block each other with impunity?

And Max, congrats on your tournament performance! So for the Yokohama tourney (we have faith in you qualifying!), Wizards will fly you out and everything? That’s quite cool. (Even cooler if there are cheerleaders and groupies and such. Are there? :wink: )

151

Back in the days of yore (pre-6th edition) tapped blockers did not deal damage. So that may be the source of your confusion.

Regarding protection, a creature with protection from from cannot be blocked by red creatures. (It’s part of the definition of protection. Can’t be blocked by, can’t be damged by, can’t be targeted by.)

So if I read your quesion as asked: The red creature with protection from red can block the red creature with protection from white all day, but can’t be blocked by the red creature with protect from white.

If I correct your question to what I think you meant: (since there are few if any, red creatures with Pro: Red, and you mentioned Pro:White) The red creature with protection from white cannot be blocked by the white creature with protection from red, and vice versa. Each creature will act as though the other one isn’t there at all.

152

D’oh! Yeah, monored vs. monowhite. Thanks for reading my mind and clearing that up for me.

So the Iridescent Angel is damn near unkillable (by anything short of “target player must sacrifice a creature” or non-targeted “all creatures” type of spells)? Man, I want that card!

153

Either those ways, or by colorless damage.

154

Forgot about that. Don’t have a lot of really good artifacts, personally…

155

You were also playing Ben Rubin, who is not known for sucking at Magic. Still - making Day 2 is more than most players dream of.

156

Sadly, no.

If you still find yourself interested in the game, KK, you may want to head over to the rec.games.trading-cards.magic newsgroups. More information is available, traffic is low, and with all the advanced strategy being on websites these days it’s mostly helping out beginners. (Just don’t ask where to buy cards, OK?)

157

Sounds like sound advice, I’ll go check that out.

Regarding not asking to buy cards, is that because it’s a trade secret of sorts, or is it just one of those typical Stupid Newbie Questions?

The only reason I ask is because we were at a WotC store, and the cashier bragged about getting a box of Legions for $60. I don’t remember what I asked - I think it was simply whether it was online - and he got kinda shifty, like I was asking him where I could get weapons grade plutonium or something. Was it just him, or are these things really That Important? (Not to trivialize it or anything - I have similar tendencies - but it just seemed like odd behavior at the time.)

158

No, because it’s a violation of the group charters and absolutely forbidden. Check out alt.cardgame.magic if you want to see why; that group used to be thriving, then it drowned in sale/trade/auction ads. :frowning:

159

Well, there’s also some lands that can do damage. There’s even an enchantment that turns black and red permanents and spells into colorless sources of damage, called Ghostly Flame. And, don’t forget about Thran Lens, which makes all permanents colorless. (But, that’s an artifact.)

160

[Magic Trivia Showoff Mode]
There’s a long and honorable history of red creatures with protection from red, including the following off the top of my head:
Skirk Fire Marshall
Beast of Bogardan
Subterranean Spirit

Red creatures with pro white include:
Mountain Yeti
Wildfire Emissary
Knight of Thorn? (I think I have that name right)

That’s all I can think of in either category…

a quick check of mtgnews.com reveals that I forgot about the following cards:

Defender of Chaos (pro white)
Keeper of Kookus (built-in ability to gain pro red)
Hell-Bent Raider (built-in ability to gain pro white)

and Knights of Thorn are a white guy with pro red, not the other way around. See what I get for trying to show off? :slight_smile:

oh, and to prove that I haven’t learned my lesson about trying to show off, ways to kill (or at least neutralize) Iridescent Angel include:
-Wrath of God (sorcery, bury all creatures) and it’s ilk
-Jokulhaups (sorcery, bury creatures, artifacts, and lands) and it’s ilk
-Void (sorcery, pick a casting cost and destroy everything of that cost)
-Whirlwind (sorcery, destroy all creatures with flying)
-Various global color-hosers (Anarchy, a sorcery that destroys all white permanents, being the most efficient)
-Diabolic Edict, Chainer’s Edict, Gravepact, Abyssal Gatekeeper, Urborg Justice, Do or Die, Innocent Blood, and Cabal Executioner (effects that make a player sacrifice a creature)
-Creature-type hosers, such as Tsabo’s Decree, Extinction, and oh-so-classy An-Zerrin Ruins
-Harbinger of Night (a black creature who puts a -1/-1 counter on every creature in play every turn)
-Ways to turn your permanent’s colorless, including (as mentioned by vandal), Ghostly Flame and Thran Lens. Plus Ersatz Gnomes. And with Erstatz Gnomes and deflection, you can play all sorts of tricks…
-Global enchantments that hose flyers, such as two copies of Katabatic Winds, or two copies of crosswinds
-Circles or runes of protection
-Ways to temporarily gain control of all of your opponent’s creatures, with you then might find a way to sacrifice (Insurrection and Reins of Power)
-Thieve’s Auction (a wacky sorcery which redistributes all the permaments on the table)
-Artifact creatures, including large artifact flyers (Teeka’s Dragon, Flowstone Sculpture, Flowstone Thopter, Copper-Leaf Angel, and Lotus Guardian)
-Artifacts that tap it, such as Icy Manipulator, Ring of Gix, and Amber Prison
-Artifacts that won’t let it untap, attack, or deal damage, such as Meekstone, Ensnaring Bridge, Horn of Deafening or Barl’s Cage
-A very small number of artifacts that will outright remove it from play, such as Amulet of Unmaking, Sandstone Deadfall, Whirling Catapault, Nevinyrral’s disk, powder keg, and (my personal favorite) Tawnos’s Coffin
-And finally, best of all, an artifact that allows you to gain control of it, namely, Helm of Possession
[/Magic Trivia Showoff Mode]