Thank you to those who have clarified the foul tip rule for me. Just one more question - presumably, if the ball goes through the strike zone to the catcher but the catcher fails to catch it, that would be a strike when the count is 0 or 1, but nothing if the count is 2 - regardless of whether the batter makes contact with it or not?
On a dropped third strike with no contact if there’s not runner on first or if there’s two outs, it’s counted as a strike, but the batter is not called out. The batter becomes a base runner and must be tagged or thrown out. If he reaches first without being tagged or thrown out he stays at first and the inning continues. Regardless of whether the batter is tagged or thrown out or reaches first safely, the pitcher is credited statistically with a strikeout.
Thanks - I do remember reading about that before actually. If there is a runner on first, is it a forced out then (unless there are already two outs, if I’m reading you correctly)? What about if the batter just touches the ball on the way through and the catcher drops it - same situation or different?
If there is a runner on first it just counts as a strikeout. With two strikes, an uncaught foul tip is the same as any other uncaught foul ball (except for a bunt), and is not a third strike.
I respect your opinion, but I think most of his input has been entertaining while contributing real facts (not all of them 100% accurate, but that’s nothing new, for any of us.) DKW isn’t spewing hatred of baseball, more a mild scolding, like the feelings you have for a wayward cousin or something.
I finally get it!! Thank you, RickyJay! In essence, from the batting team’s perspective, it sacrifices the batter’s chance of getting a single (minimal in any case, unless the ball is hit quite high yet straight into the air), for the greater good of letting the runners avoid the risk of being caught out in a force.
It was decided that, absent such a rule, the penalty to the offensive team of an intentionally dropped fly ball would be too great if it results in two outs, but acceptable if only in one, hence there have to be at least two base runners for the rule to apply. Is this correct?
One more question: Why does it apply only to infield flies? There must be situations where a fly ball is in fact intentionally dropped or allowed to land on the ground beyond the infield, so a forced-run double play can be attempted – and sometimes succeed. Is it just to keep the “balance of power” just right, between offense-favoring and defense-favoring rules (or aspects of a single rule)?
Beyond the infield the play gets really tricky to pull off. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone intentionally letting a fly ball drop in the outfield to try to pull off a double-play. The distances are just too great.
Got it, thanks. I suspected as much.
Any thoughts on my other concern – about why it only applies to would-be double plays?
That’s correct, and the baserunners must be in a position to force each other. The infield fly rules doesn’t apply when there are men at first and third, because there is no way to effect a cheap double play. If you drop the ball on purpose you could only throw out the runner already at first; the batter can make it to first in time, and the runner on third doesn’t have to go anywhere.
If the ball cannot be caught by an infielder using ordinary effort, then it’s too far to get the cheap double play.
It’s important to note that an infield fly is not a pop that is in the infield. It is a pop fly **that can be caught by an infielder making an ordinary effort. ** If the ball’s ten feet past the infield dirt, that is almost always easily caught by an infielder, and so is an infield fly; it doesn’t matter that we call that grass the “outfield.”
It is worth noting that there is a very similar, albeit very rarely enforced, rule about deliberately dropping line drives.
Well, basically, yeah. The rule was invented a zillion years ago, for all I know it was just viewed as ungentlemanly in the 1880s. But I’d have to say if the rule was removed and every pop fly in this situation was a double play free-for-all I don’t think people would like it.
Thanks! And thanks for reiterating that it’s about the infield players, not the infield itself.
One more of the things DKW was wrong about:
This is not universally true – in amateur (including top-level college) baseball, it’s common for players to pitch one day and then play another position the next, or the the team’s pitcher to be its best hitter.
The specialization happens in the professional ranks, because teams figure a young player will need to specialize in one or the other to rise all the way to the major league level. It’s not unlike football in that regard, where two-way players are common in high school, but less common at higher levels of the college game (which is effectively the NFL minor league).
There are, however occasional instances of a guy doing both at the major league level, Rick Ankiel being the most recent.
The biggest reason that most major league pitchers can’t hit is that they’re not selected for their hitting ability. Their pitching ability is so important that a team will gladly have a good pitcher who can’t hit at all. Occasionally a good-hitting pitcher will sneak through, but it’s not like other positions where a player who can’t hit will be weeded out.
Also, if a pitcher hits well enough he may be shifted to a different position so he can play every day. That’s what happened with Babe Ruth.
Can someone please teach me about Earth? Just tell me everything you know about it.
Thanksbye!
Well let’s see - Earth forms about 4.6 billion years ago, then life forms about 3.8 billion years ago, then the Cubs win a World Series, fast forward a few more billion years, now you are in the present.
Just to expand on this; the reason a dropped third strike with a runner on first and less than two outs is just a strikeout is that the dropped third strike rule results in a force play, which would mean the runner on first is also forced, which would lead to an easy double play. There’s no possibility for a double play with two outs, so the runner can attempt to get to first on a dropped third strike. If the bases are loaded with two outs and there’s a dropped third strike, the catcher will generally just pick the ball up and step on home, since the runner on third is also forced at that point.
Here’s an esoteric baseball situation that, for all my love of the game, I’m not quite clear on.
Let’s say it’s the bottom of the ninth, tie game, less than two outs, and the home team has a runner on third.
The batter hits a high fly ball, fairly deep, that wanders into foul territory but is easily catchable by the right fielder. But if he catches the ball, the runner on third can tag up and attempt to score, and the fly is deep enough that throwing him out at the plate would be an iffy proposition.
If the ball is not caught, it is at most a first or second strike, and the at-bat continues. So can the right fielder quite obviously refuse to catch the ball, even though he could easily do so, without penalty? I would think the answer would be “yes,” but I can’t recall ever seeing such a play.
Yes.
It would be a perfectly legal play but you’ll almost never see it. I don’t ever recall seeing this happen.
The reason being, of course, that the outfielders will be playing very shallow - there is no reason to bother playing deep, since catching a long fly ball ends the game anyway, so the outfielders will play inside the distance of the limit of their ability to throw the runner out at home, cutting off short flies and line drives. They will therefore almost never be in a position to even attempt to get to a long foul ball.
Here is the last play of Game 3 of the 1992 World Series; with one out, bases loaded, Candy Maldonado hits a mild, routine fly ball to center… and there’s nobody there to catch it. The outfielders are all sixty feet shallow. Why stand where catching the ball just means the runner strolls home?
Most interesting thing to me about that video: It looks like the roof is closed. They set fireworks indoors?
(And to add, as a Phillies fan, watching this was much less painful than watching the end of Game 6 of the 1993 World Series.)
The Kingdome had fireworks sometimes.