The teacher got what he deserved. What a maroon.
That some people think it is normal or acceptable to allow a teacher to casually carry firearms to school shows how low a person’s standards can get. Shooting is a nice little hobby, but keep it where it belongs.
People who are licensed to carry concealed shouldn’t be restricted from their means of self defense at work.
That doesn’t mean the teacher who threw a gun in a backpack isn’t a moron who deserved to be fired for being that careless, but don’t use that brush to tar someone like me who exercises proper practices when carrying concealed.
People who are licensed to carry concealed are restricted from carrying many places.
Here concealed weapons are against the law on school grounds, federal and state buildings, parks and military bases. Plus any business can put a sign on their door saying that no concealed weapons are allowed.
In short, a license to carry a concealed weapon is not a license to carry it anywhere you want.
Meant to add…
Perhaps the rules are different where you are catsix, but I think that there is even a federal law against weapons on school grounds that would trump any local or state concealed weapon permit.
All right! All right! I yield!
I admit the fellow was 5 kinds of idiot, if you’re going by RTFirefly’s count, and I’ve never denied that. I was just wondering if firing was a bit extreme. I must admit, even I realize a .380 semi-automatic should be too hard to overlook and none of the gun-owners I know best would do such a thing. They’d probably be as appalled as you folks are.
As for what would happen if I were to buy a gun, I assure you I can’t see myself being that absent minded. The ex-fiance who showed me there are such things as responsible gun owners taught me the basics of gun safety including always keep weapons and ammunition under separate lock and key unless you’re actively transporting them to or from the range or at the range, guns should be unloaded at all times unless you are about to fire, and treat all guns as if they are loaded. If I ever do consider buying a gun, I will be having a long talk with the gun owners I know now.
There’s one thing I was wondering about as a result of this thread. If, on your way to or from the range, you choose to run some errands, what’s the right thing to do with your gun?
Please forgive me if I sound incredibly naive.
CJ
CJ: having just completed the canadian firearms safety course, the legal thing here (which also makes sense as a reasonable and safe thing) is that the gun should be unloaded and either locked or separated from the bolt carrier, and should be out of sight and in a securely locked part of the car. I don’t recall what the law says about ammo in transport (for storage it must be either separate from the gun, or securely locked with it), but my plan is to store and transport ammo in a locked toolbox with a separate key from the gun case/ trigger lock. In fact I’m paranoid enough I’ll probably mix keyed and combo’d locks so I need both to actually have a fireable weapon. But if everything’s redundantly locked and in the trunk of a car, it’s fine to leave it in the parking lot while you get your coffee…
Which is a rule that I will gladly break in the interest of my own self defense. I’d rather have a pissed off fast food store manager hating me than be executed at Wendy’s. At a previous job I decided that to risk getting fired was worth it considering the problems we’d had with violent people coming in (I worked in a computer lab in the middle of the night and it took the police an average of 20 minutes to respond to a call) than it would to be defenseless.
It should be. I should have equal opportunity for self defense at the post office, supermarket, bank, range, convenience store, etc.
Some people will decide that it’s better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.
The last of those things is the first rule of gun safety. All the others work well on firearms that are not intended for self defense use, but would render a pistol useless as a defensive tool.
In the lobby of the range I’m a member at, there is a loading/unloading area for those people who carry concealed. I switch back to my hollowpoints, put the magazine in and re-holster there. If I have to stop for an errand, I just get out of the car with pistol holstered and out of sight on my person. Doesn’t really hurt anything. If you’re not licensed to carry concealed, you can leave it unloaded, cased and locked in the trunk of the car (or in the case of a pickup truck or SUV it must NOT be accessible to the driver/passengers while driving, and never in the glove box) and be fine. There is no requirement in Pennsylvania to disassemble any gun during transport. The ammo should be kept separate, as in not in the gun case. Most of the time I keep extra ammo in a ‘range bag’ which has all my range stuff (safety glasses, ear protection, lubricating oil, speed loader, etc) in it. I keep that in the trunk while driving. The pistol doesn’t leave my body.
Great. But when did this thread become about your habits? No one has tarred you. The teacher’s idiocy is not yours – unless you were that teacher (???)
catsix, instead of proving to everyone why they should have a problem with gun owners, why don’t you just state that you will follow the laws of the state that issued you your permit?
I swear, I find that annoying. Pennsylvania has not given you carte blanche to carry everywhere you want to. They have set specific guidelines for you to follow, and you are obligated to follow them as a responsible gun owner.
Anything less just gives more ammo to the gun control advocates.
It didn’t. I answered the question asked by cjhoworth:
Why don’t I just pretend I think that every restriction is valid and that I don’t disagree with any of them? Are you asking me to be disingenous and say that I think it’s absolutely fine to deny someone the ability to defend themselves depending on where they are?
Sorry, but I don’t believe that. I obey the law as far as schools, post offices, court houses, federal buildings and airports. That doesn’t mean I have to think they’re good laws.
You find it annoying that there are laws I disagree with?
I am not obligated to like every law.
Should people not speak out against, call their Congressmen or state legislators about, write about or otherwise civilly protest laws they believe to be unjust? You’re taking me to task because I said I believe it’s unjust to deny someone the ability to defend themselves based on their location. Is that giving ‘more ammo to the gun control advocates’?
And so as not to further hijack this thread, my email’s in my profile. You can answer there if you want.
An airliber? A bar? A federal courthouse? Touring the White House?
I apologize for this being somewhat off-topic, but it seems to me that being excessively paranoid should be included among the criteria for exclusions to purchasing or carrying firearms. Certainly it discolors one’s perceptions of threat.
What’s an airliber? I meant airliner.
Sam Stone: Airliner I think yes. Obviously not legal to carry on there and not something I do, but I think it oughta be legal. Federal courthouse, eh, I can see reasons for and against carrying there, and I suppose a compelling case is made for ‘against’. White House is also one where I can see the argument against because the President has to be protected, and I think that considering the nature of the security at the White House I really wouldn’t have a problem with it.
I do think that in places where people can’t carry firearms the system that the PA courts has is pretty good. A licensee can check their firearms with the sheriff’s deputies who guard the courthouse when entering and pick it up when they leave.
Hentor: I think you’re right about parnoia coloring one’s perception of a threat, but I’m not sure it’s something that could be objectively and fairly implemented. I know that there are prohibitions against ownership based on involuntary commitment to a mental health facility, and I can see why. I wouldn’t want someone who comitted murder but was insane and detained in say, Mayview State Hospital to come out and buy a gun. I guess the thing is that I see opportunity for governmental abuse depending on how much lattitude they have with those things.
Again, I’m not saying that this guy shouldn’t have been fired. He was irresponsible, he recklessly endangered the lives of a lot of people, and firing is the least of things that should happen to him.
I think if i was a parent whose child was in that school I sure the hell would want to know why this teacher is not facing criminal charges. How often do children die because their best friend’s dad didn’t take care of protecting his guns? Even blanks can kill at close range, but this guy would have had live ammo. How stupid can you get.
Even if this gun had a realy heavy trigger pull, wierd stuff happens in the enclosed spaces of a backpack (or it certainly does in mine) he is lucky he didn’t shoot himself. At any rate the clear lack of respect he showed for the power of his gun, and that lack of concern for his students suggests that he realy didnt want that job.
Weird stuff, including the deactivation of safety switches?
I dont know, the guy was dumb enough to carry a loaded gun in his backpack I don’t see alot of thought going into using the safety switches. I have had a childproof can of acetone come undone in a bag of stuff from the hardware store. I could see a pencil getting jambed in such a way as to activate the safety. When it comes to accidents if there is something that has a 1:100,000,000 chance of happening it will.
Or maybe I am just overly conciencious (read that scared) when I have to deal with guns. I deal with guns mostly for theatrical purposes. There are whole series of things that have to be dealt with for legality and to cover my butt. I am legaly responsible for that gun and could be held accountable for anything that happens even if it is not in my possession during the time of an accident. There needs to be a clear paper trail as to who should have the gun at any given moment in the play, and where it should go at night and a log book signed when it is locked up, as well as cleaning records and reciepts for the blanks. When I worked on shows on University campuses the guns had to be delivered to the Campus police for lock up after the shows. I would be willing to bet anyone who has to deal with guns for proffessional reasons has to keep similar records on their guns.
I can maybe see the idea of wanting your gun to protect you, even if I dissagree with you. This guy wasnt protecting himself he was endangering the comunity. This guy showed careless disregard for his students, and the faculty he worked with. What if it was a kid who found it. Kids go in teachers lounges. What if that kid had had a realy bad day. What if that kid shot himself… someone else… Or just held on to it to rob a grocery store that night. The people who provided guns to the boys who shot up Columbine were charged with assessory to murder. That teacher got off lucky.
I used to substitute at the school district in question and they most certainly do have a weapons policy that applies to firearms. I know Tony and think he’s a great teacher and a nice guy but I feel that this was totally irresponsible and he should be dismissed. Sorry Tony, if you read this.
Welcome to the Board, Hobie! It’s nice to have another Pittsburgher around.
CJ
You do realize what happens should a stray bullet pierce the outer wall of the plane, right? Is your “right to defend yourself anywhere” more important than the safety of everyone else? Because if you say yes, you’re once again backing up the stereotypical view of the gun owner as selfish and irresponsible.