A teacher may belong to the Tea Party which I disagree with on nearly every count.
I wouldn’t try to get a teacher fired for their opinion though.
That’s what you keep missing. Teachers, as a group, is a large class of people with widely divergent opinions as you would expect from any large group of people.
If you start down the path of, “Well, I don’t agree with teacher-X and don’t want my kids around them!” you will find it near impossible to find enough teachers to get your kid through school.
Unless you can show this elementary school art teacher was regaling her students of the wonders of prostitution you’ve got nothing.
Hell, at that age she could probably tell the kids she was a prostitute and if they even knew what one was it’d still probably be meaningless to them. Where they’d lose their respect is when the kid comes home and tells you and you make a huge fuss. Your kid will take that cue from you.
So, more likely you would fuck-up the kid’s head than this teacher.
I’m pretty sure your hypothetical is, on the face of it, self-contradicting. I’d appreciate if you could show me even one example of how this is possible, because otherwise we might as well be talking about the saucer men of Epsilon IV.
Leaving that aside, however, I would of course treat Jim with dignity and respect (just as I have in the past with clients of homelessness services and drug and alcohol counseling services at which I’ve been employed, despite not sharing the opinion that shooting smack into your eyeballs every day is a great way to spend your time). What is there to gain by treating Jim in a disrespectful manner (as, I assume, you’re arguing students should treat a former sex worker)?. What would you rather I do, give him the finger and tell him to suck my cock?
This isn’t to say that, were I his friend, I wouldn’t attempt to dissuade Jim from his self-mutilation.
I’d be all for the idea that off the job activities cannot be terminating offenses, but it would have to apply universally. And I don’t know how many times I’ve seen at-will firing talked about around here without anyone mentioning that it is a bad thing.
Also, we do have to factor in one thing: Her advocacy was public. In the same way that public figures have less privacy rights, I could get behind the idea that if you publicly cause disruption for the school, you can get fired.
I’ve heard it said that it is unfair that a congressman trapped in scandal from their personal lives should not be reelected. But I say that it is far more important that the idea of democracy allows us to remove someone we don’t want representing us. This is the same logic used here. Something as important as who is acting in loco parentis of our kids is something the parents should have veto power over. If we apply the logic applied to every other job, why can’t she be fired? Assuming the person is not a protected class, discrimination is 100% legal because people value their freedom more than restrictions on descrimination.
As an aside, I also say that parents should have the right to send their kid to schools that are better than the public school system. Half the child’s time is spent at school, which leaves little time for further education. And the state has more of an interest in producing a sufficiently (both in quality and quantity) educated populace. It does not have a specific interest in the individual, and thus said individual may learn more or better in other environments. The bigger problem is the lack of choice for poorer people.
I completely agree, but don’t think the solution for the problem of lack of access to the poor is to say, (as my federal government has over the last decade) “fuck them, we’ll give increasingly more funding to private schools which those plebs will never be able to afford”. My intuition is that this will just lead to further stratification of society (funded by the public coffers!), but then what do I know?
If there are administrators, facilities and teachers which outstrip public schools by such a margin, then either nationalise them or fund and incentivise public schools in a way to attract these individuals. Seriously, I believe that a strong education system which fosters inquiry, nurtures a love of learning, and provides a broad and effective level of education across all sectors is the golden bullet to many of society’s problems; and it’s infuriating that my government is too short-sighted to recognise this.
As I mentioned upthread my girlfriend is a teacher, and genuinely one of the most talented, passionate and dedicated early childhood teachers that I know. I’m not just saying this because I’m contractually obliged to, by the way - it just seems to ooze from her every pore, and her rapport with children comes so effortlessly. She’s been working for state schools since graduation (due to a belief in the value of public education, one I share wholeheartedly), but has recently had to resort to applying for job’s with the Catholic system after being screwed around with contracts and growing sick of the expectation that she runs herself into the ground to make up for administrative and budgetary shortcomings. I can’t help but weep when I think that her story is probably repeating itself countless times across the country, and that the number of high quality teachers in the public system is being further and further diluted.
I wonder, is there another profession where the person is expected to embody so many unspoken moral and social ideals, while getting paid so little and given so little respect. Hell, even Nuns at least get respected.
It seems that anyone training to be a teacher must hold themselves outside normal “life” and society, ensuring they never do anything that anyone else finds objectionable and yet also be paid a pittance and shouted at if little Johnny dared come home with a sad letter because his parents let him play watch dvds all night rather than actually try parenting (cuz, you know, effort…)
Not sure what you consider a pittance but the average teacher salary in the US is around $43,000/year. Of course there is a lot of variation in that average but still…$43K a year is not too bad. Not rich but not a pittance either.
Then consider they get paid that for a 9 month “year”. If they earned that monthly rate for a full 12 months they’d have an average salary of over $57,000/year.
I respect teachers and know their job is difficult and parents can make their lives hell but I am tired of the meme of the poor, starving teacher.
Prostitution is illegal and it does not make for a good role model so if someone admitted to engaging in such acts the the school system has every right to take her job away. Plus if she did not want to get fired she should have not posted on public forums about her sexual past; parents do not want their children to be taught by a former prostitute.
Average beginning teacher salary: $25,504 California (high):
Salary range: $44,337 - $102,348
Average teacher salary: $63,640
Average beginning teacher salary: $35,506
So yeah there is variation but then it costs less to live in South Dakota than it does to live in California. Some teachers will be underpaid, some overpaid but in general teachers do ok salary wise. Most won’t get rich doing it but it is not a pittance for most either.
And again remember that is for 9 months of work but being paid for 12 months. Also consider teachers generally have a good benefits package.
Firstly, thank you for your response. I disagree with your conclusions, but I understand how you got there. Let me draw a parallel for you between this situation and another, the banning of smoking in bars/clubs. The rationale for banning smoking in clubs and bars was not to punish smokers, it was to protect employees of the clubs/bars from exposure to second-hand smoke. People shouldn’t have to give up their rights when they take employment, and that includes the right not to work in a poisonous environment. It pissed off bar/club patrons to be told they couldn’t smoke there anymore, and many voted with their dollars and feet, but the reality is they have no right to force people to conform to their idea of what a bar/club should be. It doesn’t matter that there is a long standing tradition of a bar/club as a smoking friendly place, the rights of the employees win over the preferences of the patrons.
Similarly, teachers don’t give up their rights when they take a teaching position. Teachers have a long standing traditional role as models for youth, but this is not sufficient legal basis to restrict their rights. A teacher may be a Catholic in a school with vehemently Protestant parents and the parents just have to get over it. A teacher may be a licensed gun owner and rifle enthusiast and parents think that’s a horrible thing, but the parents are out of luck. Teachers may be white in a predominantly black area and the parents want a black teacher, tough shit. A teacher could be a woman in an all-male school and parents want their kids taught by people who can “turn them into real men.” Well, tough noogies there too.
Teachers can still be fired if their behavior in the classroom is inappropriate, but they retain all the rights and privileges of citizens of the US at all times, including the right to free speech. The parents may be upset at what they feel is the message that employing a former prostitute who lobbies for legal prostitution sends to the kids, but the state has no remedy which doesn’t violate the teacher’s right to free speech. If she’s fired for her personal speech outside the classroom, then she probably has a strong case for wrongful termination. The state is not allowed to use protected speech in a policy decision. Becoming a teacher is not a commitment to give up your autonomy and personal rights.