Just to chime in, parental involvement has indeed been cited in numerous studies as a very important component. Teachers are often not even able to do their jobs properly if the parents of a student won’t meet them half way. Too many parents view teachers are glorified baby sitters.
Now that we’re five pages into the thread-let’s go back to the beginning. buttonjockey308 expressed his upset with teacher strikes more than anything, and if I understand his position correctly he views teachers to be an essential public trust, as are police, fire, and EMS services.
What if the fire department didn’t show up when you called 911? How would you react if you punched those three digits and heard, I’m sorry, but the emergency services dispatching center is currently closed owing to a labor dispute. Please deal with your problem on your own.
Obtaining and maintaining a degree in education is hard work, without question. Does the possession of a degree grant a higher privilege? If so, what about those firefighters, LEOs and emergency health care workers who are also degreed? Most of us also have a commitment to continuing education, even those unpaid professionals as myself.
The suburban Philadelphia district in which I lived until 10 years ago is rife with the sort of action which I believe was the root of the OP-that being each district trying to outdo the last, with strikes if the ante isn’t upped. The last few contract settlements I’ve read of in places such as Central Bucks, Council Rock, Neshaminy, and New Hope-Solebury are significantly more than a starting police officer or firefighter earn.
Is being a teacher a tough job which requires a special type of person? Without question. I wouldn’t want to try to manage 30+ youngsters for 7 hours every day while trying to teach them something useful. The flip side-how many teachers died in the line of duty during 2004? Can’t answer that question, but I do know that 107 firefighters did.
Obviously firemen and cops deal with life or death situations every day.
Teachers rarely if ever do.
As such the comparision is somewhat spurious.
I don’t understand, how do districts try to one-up each other?
How does their salary relative to a cop’s or fire fighter’s matter except to say that we’re probably paying them too little, too?
Moreoever, a cop or fire fighter doesn’t have to go to school to get a degree, there should be some reward in terms of starting salary for that.
But what exactly is this supposed to prove?
At least three posters included links in their posts which supported their viewpoints and knowledge of the subject. In essence backing up what they’ve been saying.
You however have provided ZERO cites for your claims that “most teachers” aren’t credible and that their claims are bullshit, etc.
No he didn’t. And FTR, anyone who’s posted for ANY length of time, and has even the remotest grasp of reading comprehension could see that **Miller is nothing if not shoot from the hip honest.
As your very own words show, you did in fact call people HERE liars and “call bullsit” on what they said. In your very first post, you were already insinuating that “most” teachers were not being truthful. Miller was pointing that out, not trying to correlate some bizarre Slyfrog world math about how most of this doesn’t equal some of that or whatever.
And I’m not some little groupie buddy of Miller’s either, I’ve been spanked pretty hard by him for saying something stupid before. Again, I wasn’t crazy about his harsh delivery, but the man is honest.
No he didn’t, he made an attempt to pierce the immense void of your ignorance by using this amazing tool called an “analogy”. An Al O geee. Can you say it? I knew you could.
Even merely saying “most X do Y” as you have repeatedly is in and of itself INCORRECT. You have not provided ANY hard data regarding what most teachers do, or do not do. Therefore, for you to state “most teachers X” is not only false but an insult to the members of that profession.
It is very MUCH like stating most [insert minority group here] do X, where x is some evil thing. So **Miller was right on the money with his analogy, unfortunately, you don’t have the wit to understand it.
psssssst, I know this is gonna sound totally newbie…but…who’s Godwin?
Each and every one of the quotes from you, that Happy put in his post says this.
What exactly do you think saying "I call bullshit"and “that’s not credible” in direct response to what someone has said means? That you’re patting them on the back?
Oh, you mean kind of like where I actually have cites, links of hard data for my viewpoints and you have provided nothing? Yeah, funny how just “because I say so, and I know for sure” don’t quite work for you in those cases innit?
I’m just astonished at the depth of your ignorance, I have still have no dislike or anymosity for you. And I find it really funny that, now that I’ve figured out just how deluded you are, suddenly I’m no longer "reasonable.
No one is on your case because you said “every”. They’re on your case because:
With a mere “case study” of 30 teachers you claim you “know it for sure” what teachers’ lives are really like.
That in direct response to teachers here, you say such things as “I call bullshit” and “that’s just not credible”.
That you throw out the word “most” as if it could somehow, just by you saying it, be true, but you offer no actual hard data for this supposition.
1.) I did provide hard data sites that show that you’re dead wrong about “most” teachers.
2.) No one has said you said “every” as I cover above. Talk about a strawman.
Well, thank God you can at least admit ONE of your instances of mispeaking. Because the line I answered was that you DID claim that all you did was say “take this with a grain of salt” when what you actually posted was FAR from that.
First of all, the teachers who posted here posted their actual circumstances in response to the OP who made references to how cushy their jobs were. They weren’t trying to use it to get more money, or to whine, or anything else, they were disputing the idea, as descrbed by the OP that their lives were “cushy”.
Second, that’s not flat out war. Again, as I’ve stated over and over, I have no dog in this fight, I’m not a teacher (university instructor yes, but that is in NO way related to the public school system, whole 'nother animal), and I know of no teachers and have none in my family, so my only “dog in this fight” is that of fighting ignorance, and you have an overwhelming supply of that.
Third, I provided actual CITES stating the reasons and some of the stats for teacher burnout, in the top are long hours, and lack of equitable pay.
In the attempt to divest you of your ignorance, this point has yet to be made, (but again, was included in my cites), but many of the wages for teachers “top out” at a certain amount. So, unlike the similar white collar jobs that I cited, there’s nowhere to go but burnout for teachers once they hit their salary cap.
35k sounds great to start, 53k? Not so great after 30-40 years of faithful service. So their “enough” does have room for improvement however much this causes cretins like you to chomp sour grapes.
Status, keepin’ up with the Joneses…
Tradition, because that’s where dad went, and granddad and so on…and in keeping with that…
Because it’s one of the prep schools that is a stepping stone to Ivy League colleges
Sports
Convenience (I had my daughter in private school for her kindergarten year because they had a full day for kindergarteners, public school did a half day)…
Safety
For All girls, or All boys to try and keep kids chaste.
Like the example of sports, for any school that offers a specific specialized program, ala Juliard fo the Arts
And sadly, some reasons that aren’t so nice such as to keep segregation alive.
I’ll bet other dopers can think of other reasons as well.
OOOH 
I’ve seen this, just didn’t know that’s what it was called. DOI :smack:
I kept thinking it referred to some long ago banned doper or something.
I always thought one reason parents sent their kids to private school is because the chances of their kids getting into a “bad crowd” are less. Well, parents perceive this, anyway.
What a lot of people don’t realize is that private schools don’t have to take everybody and educate (or try to, anyway) everybody. My understanding is that private school teachers get paid considerably less than public school teachers…but because they tend to have more motivated children whose parents are supportive and they can kick out the extreme behavior problems, their job is easier.
My neighbor’s daughter goes to a small private Christian school. As far as I can see, she’s not learning more than she would at a public school (unless you count the religion classed). And, according to her, the kids aren’t very accepting and friendly…so much for educating with Christian principals; she could save her money and get that at public schools. That’s just my personal bias, though.
1b. Leave the US and keep teaching. I sit in a faculty lounge in Bangkok with a bunch of American teachers who will never return to the US to teach. Some have been here over ten years and still bitch about how bad it was in the US.
Funny that the Canadian teachers tend to go back home after a few years, it must be better there.
I took home the same money that I made waitressing when I taught. If I had stayed a waitress I would not have incurred those massive student loans so I was really making less money. So after being laid off and re-hired a few times while living in my crappy studio apartment and being shit on I decided that enough was enough. I could stop teaching and go back to school for something I didn’t want to do or I could leave.
I take home the same money in a third world country working for the government as I did in PA. The difference is I now no longer live paycheck to paycheck, I live in a decent apartment and I don’t even have to buy supplies out of my own pocket. Also, the culture here actually respects teachers: instead of parents asking me why I can’t fix their kid during the school day parents will apologize if their kid is not behaving. The idea of a child not behaving is radically different here too, it’s talking during class instead of trying to set a classmate on fire (It happened in my classroom.) I also get to write my own curriculum, teach it as I see best and my employer not only acknowledges that I am doing my job well but gives me Christmas and birthday presents, caters meetings with good food (not cafeteria crap or pay for yourself) and the teachers have a monthly luncheon with the president of the University. Can’t say I’ve even ever met any superintendent I’ve worked for.
Be grateful to those who stay. My school will be recruiting soon.
Sounds like an interesting gig, can you give me any more info or a website?
One could argue that another one of the most basic tenets of the free market is my ability to fire someone who doesn’t show up for work, and replace them with someone off the street who is willing to do the same job for less money. What does the union think about that? Oh, right.
Damn, if you were in the US, you would have proven my point. That only took two minutes.
Check out my website in my profile for some bare bones info and leave a message if you want. My school’s site is in Thai.
One could also argue that both are tenets of a free market and that a free market exists at the dynamic intersection of various forces which sometimes oppose each other.
Born and raised, currently residing in Texas (I miss Gotham city).
Will do.
Two questions.
- Is there language training or are applicants expected to come to the position with a command of Thai?
- Is your username an intentional misspelling of altoid, or am I missing something?
It’s been in about every post I’ve put up on the subect, including yours. I quoted him (from rough memory) at least 3-4 times. I’m done posting. Whether people just aren’t getting it, or (as I think is more likely) they do not want to read it because it’s written proof that he was wrong, is now beside the point.
The first time Miller spoke, he said (paraphrased, I’ve give the exact quote too many times now) if you say most teachers are lying, and I am a teacher, you’ve just called me a liar.
It was only the second time that he changed what he purportedly said to if you say most teachers are liars, and I’m a teacher, don’t you think I might be insulted. I never disagreed with the second formulation, for reasons I’ve exhaustively stated already.
At this point everyone is either having fun being intentionally obtuse, their petty biases will not allow them to admit what was clearly written, or they honestly cannot comprehend what is written. I’ve stated it enough times; I’m fully comfortable with the written record.
Thailand (and many other countries) are seeking native English speaking teachers. Some schools prefer Brits but a US teaching certification is worth a lot in many markets.
Some schools recruit from abroad and don’t expect people to know how to speak Thai, although a few people have degrees in Thai Studies. Not that common, as I never knew it existed until recently. Elementary education is the most in demand here but they tend to prefer women teachers for those jobs. (Women expats are also much rarer so it’s also a status thing.)
I was altiod in a previous non-dyslexic life.
So sorry that I’m only getting back to this. I had to go home last night and help my daughter do her homework while my wife worked on lesson plans.
Hyperbolize much?
Well, what you claim is competition is not. A public school has to take you. If you live in the district, have your shots and filled out the paperwork, you’re a student. Private schools, on the other hand, can kick your ass to the curb due to behavior, or they can simply refuse to accept you from the go. Competition doesn’t have a damned thing to do with it.
Again, the hyperbole. However, as FinnAgain has already admirably pointed out, since you’ve not taught children, then you’ve nothing on which to base your belief that teachers do not do a demanding job. And there have been plenty of teachers that have posted to this thread who say that it is most assuredly demanding.
Well, as Happy Lendervedder already pointed out, public education is not free. As to why parents would send their children to private school, I will add what I mentioned, above, that private schools can eliminate behavior issues. Also, private schools don’t have to provide educations and appliances for special education students, thereby freeing up a whole helluva lot of money that can be spent on, well, pretty much anything.
It’s already been backed up. Repeatedly.
Hear! Hear! Tell you what: You try teaching for a time, then come back and tell us all about those teachers who are making more money than they deserve. And which job is harder. Sure, you’d have trouble, but I’ll wager that you’d also respect them far more than you do right now.
Again, you are light years from being right. The cold light of right will never reach you. Are you serious? “When the day is over, it’s over.”? Have you read any of the posts on this thread?
Can’t speak for anyone else, but I don’t require cites. I know more than a couple of private school teachers, too.
Brother, you ain’t fortunate. You’re outright blessed. Teachers with that sort of support oughta be slipping you furtive sexual favors. Although I’m kinda curious what you mean when you say, “. . .there’s a lot of private money that goes into the public schools.” Do you mean that parents slip teachers a fifty when no one’s looking? That tax rates are higher? I’m trying to imagine such a thing.
Maybe because they know that they can be shown the door because they did something that the school doesn’t care for?