There is a distinct difference between robbing someone of a possession and manipulating one of their possessions to your advantage, without any gain or loss on their part. If I literally stole $600 from Adobe, they just lost $600 dollars. If I cracked Photoshop, which I wouldn’t have bought otherwise anyway, they will never know who I am or that I took anything from anyone. Why they spend so much money trying to combat this is beyond me.
You’re talking about how locks work “both socially and physically,” and yet you can’t understand that there are social ramifications to teaching a child to steal that go beyond the pass-through cost of soda syrup?
The real point here is hidden in the title of the thread. The problem isn’t that the man stole a few cents’ worth of soda; the real problem is that he’s teaching his child to be a thief. That’s why the encounter is worth talking about. That’s why it has significance.
Apologies, I should have said petty crime, even though most of what listed is a form of theft or at least encouraging theft. For the items I listed above…would you like to define what virtue they fall under? Please go one item at a time like you did last time. I like one word answers. It really helps with communication.
I don’t understand this sort of base mentality at all.
Adobe developed Photoshop. Because they developed it, they have the copyright. Because they have the copyright, they get to dictate its terms of use.
Harm doesn’t even even into it (although you go and tell a software developer that he should work for free for your benefit and tell me what he/she says). It’s their product, they get to choose what they want to do with it.
You don’t like that? Don’t use it. Create your own. See if you can find a developer who has chosen to distribute freeware or shareware.
Just because something doesn’t exist in a tangible state, doesn’t mean you have the right to it. And you most certainly don’t have the right to take something just because you think (and you’re wrong btw) that no harm or economic loss comes to a company or individual when you take product X without complying with its terms of use.
Where does that sense of self-entitlement come from? Who made you the arbiter for deciding what does or doesn’t constitute harm to a company?
My parents taught me a long time ago that if someone hasn’t given you permission to take something or if you haven’t purchased something outright, you don’t take it. This is pretty basic stuff. Why did your parents do such a poor job of raising you?
I have more respect for those who use pirated stuff (and I’ve done it myself, although I’m trying to turn over a new leaf) when they are up front about what they’re doing. You can debate the fine distinction between stealing a physical item and stealing an electronic copy if you wish, but the effort to redefine piracy as “not theft”—as if that somehow mitigates it----is just laughable. You are enjoying something you were supposed to pay for but didn’t; ergo, you are stealing from someone. At least be a man (or woman) and own up to it.
I compare (some) piracy to standing outside a concert venue and listenting. If you must have office, and you pirate it - you are a thief. For products that you would not buy, ever I think is a different case
So the store charges two different prices for soda and water and have self serve fountain. If they wanted to control what people got they should have kept the fountain behind the counter or charged a single price for a fountain drink.
I don’t buy soda anymore at food places. Its a rip off, so we only get water and only at places where they do not charge you for the cup (Burger King and McDonalds so far).
When little, my mother stold some barbie hangers for me, and when i was a teen, she stole two library books. This was back when there were no metallic beepers at the doors.
Back in the old days, people were more honest apparently.
This never taught me to steal.
Well, then you’re just being an idiot. If you understand me perfectly, why argue against a point I didn’t even make?
How do locks work, socially?
This is an easy one. If they didn’t spend any effort to combat it, there would be more people trying to get it for free. Conceivably, even more people would then feel that they should have it without paying for it, because so many others did not pay for it. And then Adobe would make even less profit.
I am. I was responding very specifically to Freudian Slit, and this thread has moved way past the boundaries of the OP. In any case, my hypothetical was murder, so I win in the cosmic game of outrageous ethical violations.
8 of my friends all met in Panera one night a few weeks ago for a book club meeting. We were sitting back in the “community” room, which is just a large room set apart from the rest of the restaurant where you can hold meetings.
As we were discussing the book, a man in his 60s came in the room with a little girl. He said, “I’m driving home from Akron and forgot my wallet. My granddaughter and I need some gas money. Would you ladies be able to help us get home?”
:rolleyes:
Some of my friends actually handed him money (one got out a $5 bill!) but most of us, including me, refused. I’m well acquainted with the new trend of people showing up at your door or accosting you in a restaurant or shopping mall in order to beg for money. All with the same sob story. Perhaps they find it to be more effective than putting a sign up and parking their ass on the curb like a proper beggar. In any event, I wasn’t born yesterday and I didn’t buy for one second that he forgot his wallet.
But what really ticked me off is that not only was he using this child as a pawn to get sympathy, but that he was TEACHING her that begging from strangers was an acceptable way to get money. Oh good. A new generation of dead beats is born.
Post script: After he gathered his $8 from us, he looked around at those who hadn’t contributed and had the gall to say, “I was hoping for more – I’ll need at least $20 to get home. Can someone help make up the difference?” (No, we didn’t. In fact, this is what ticked off the ladies who had contributed.)
Post script #2 - Shortly after, he was spotted in line at the register. Of course. He reportedly didn’t have enough money to buy gas to get home, but thanks to us now had enough to buy dinner at one of the more expensive fast food places in town.
That’s actually 100% legal, assuming you’re using an unsecured wireless network.
How would you know if I am arguing against a point you made or didn’t make as you were unable to glean my meaning before, why do you think you get it now?
They are unlocked far more often than people realize and that the perception of being locked is generally what keeps people out of the house. As my Uncle once told me, “Locks are to keep honest people honest.”
**
RickJay** Understanding that there are social ramifications and buying into the RO apoplexy are two different animals. I didn’t say it’s insignificant, I just questioned a few of the assumptions posited by people who are afraid of the ravenous hordes of petty thieves.
Stealing is a shitty thing to do and they guy’s an asshole for teaching his kid how to swindle people.
Doesn’t matter if it barely cuts into their profit margins, if they’re a mom n’ pop or a large corporation, if the kid becomes a thief, whether it’s an actionable offense.
Stealing, in addition to being illegal and wrong, is a shitty thing to do no matter who your victim is or how large the take.
I disagree. If you’re hungry and can’t afford food I don’t give a shit if you steal from McDonald’s.
I agree that this guy is a prick for teaching his kids that, and that the OP is a wanker for not having the courage of his/her own convictions to speak up.
Stealing is generally wrong, but there are certainly circumstances where I think it’s justified and more than that, I’d rather someone steal from a corporate fast food chain than individuals.
Hey guys, I just drew an awesome picture of a cat.
Seeing as how it’s a wholly original work, created entirely by me, I own exclusive rights to it. I’m willing to license copies of it for $1,000,000, though.
Here’s a link: http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9599/cat.png
But please don’t click the link unless you’ve purchased a license, or it will cost me $1,000,000, and I don’t think I can afford that much of a financial loss right now.
Guys, copyright violation is not theft. Also things that are not theft: jaywalking, trespassing, speeding, sexual harassment, patent infringement, perjury, going to work even though you’ve got the flu, vandalism, violation of the endangered species act, smuggling, voter fraud, bribery, and so on.
Copyright violation is its own thing. It can be compared to theft in several ways, but it also differs from theft in several ways.
If I make an unauthorized copy a Green Day album, I can guarantee that I will not be charged under any theft law. It may be that I’ve committed an ethical violation on the same order as shoplifting a Green Day CD from Walmart, but if I shoplift the CD I’ll be charged with theft, if I copy the CD I won’t be.