Team photo etiquette -- amateur photog vs. pro

Great Debates
1

I take photos of teams, send some to local papers, send some to high school yearbook staff for possible use. No pay, just snap a few photos & let people use them if they want.

I am not a professional photographer. I am not employed by either the high school or the local media, though I have a long rapport with both. At a specific game, I’m really no different than any other parent with a camera.

Our lacrosse team makes it to the state championship (we lost.) Anyway, I told the coach that I wanted to get a team photo prior to the game. I’ve taken lots of team photos. It’s not hard to line up two or three rows of players.

As I get into the park, I noticed the team is already lined up for a team photo by some other guy. As I approach, the guy finishes, and the team starts to move. I told them to hold on, because I wanted to get a couple of shots. The team gets back where they were, and I snap a few photos.

The other guy asked who I was and what I was doing with those photos. He said he was the official tournament photographer. I told him I’d probably send the photo to my local newspaper and the yearbook staff.

He claims that he set up the shot, and I took a photo of ‘his’ shot. He used his professional expertise, and I came along and took advantage of it. He also gave me a business card, and he said if I did the right thing, I would purchase a copy of the photo from him. I told him it isn’t rocket science to line up an athletic team for a team photo – captains in front, tall guys in the back, coach seated in center of front row or standing on end of one row.

I asked him if he would send a courtesy copy of the photo to my local paper and the yearbook staff. I told him if he would do that, I’d buy a photo and delete the shots I took. He said he doesn’t work for free, and he’s trying to run a business. I later talked to a tournament official who told me the guy is just a local guy who has the okay to come in and take photos. The tournament has no designated official photographer. The official told me I was not stepping on anyone’s toes, and this guy pays no fee or provides any tournament advertising for the right to be the official photog.

My question – did I violate some type of etiquette? I have wondered about that before when I’ve seen a pro line up a team and parents run out next to him and snap away. Had the players dispersed after his shot, and I had to realign them, the resulting lineup might not even differ from how he aligned them. I could see if the guy paid a fee to be there as the official photographer, but he didn’t.

2

Fuck him.

3

Agreed.

4

^^

5

Another vote for the fucking of him.

6

I would post this on a photography-oriented forum, just to see what kind of responses you would get. I’m sometimes quite surprised by the disconnect between professional photographers and non-professional or non-photographers, but hearing another perspective is interesting.

That said, that guy sounds like a real cock. You aren’t earning any money, you aren’t losing him any money, and you aren’t getting in his way. Fuck him.

7

I can understand some of the photographers frustration. Whether or not it is easy to get the team to line up in two or three rows, he was the one who set the shot up. In the grand scheme of things it might not have been a big deal but it might violate a point of etiquette among professional photographers. Or not. I don’t know. I’m not a professional photographer.

I had a bad situation with a couple of feuding historical reenactors (they prefer living history interpreters). At first I wasn’t sure if there was something I was missing within the rather small reenactor community, but, in due time, I figured out the woman who had the problem was just bat shit crazy. Maybe it’s the same for your photographer.

8

You’re competition. You’re a threat to his additional income. What you decided to do for free, gratis, etc. he’s trying to make a buck off of. You can’t blame him for trying, but you don’t morally or legally owe him anything.

If you see him again, just tell him competition sucks, welcome to the world of business. Even for profit companies have to compete against non-profits.

9

Would you feel the same way about someone who distributed bootleg copies of a movie to his freinds (of a movie that none of his friends would have ever paid to go see)?

I doubt there is intellectual property in “settting up” a photo but the reason to ignore the guy is because he hasn’t really created something that is worth protecting by getting a bunch of kids to line up for a photo (of course I guess you could say the same thing about some of the movies we see these days).

10

Lining kids up needs a professional touch? I’m in the wrong business. I’m sure without his help you would have had the kids picking their noses or assymetrical line.

Go find the guy and tell him that you will give him what he deserves for his hard and professional work.

Then take off his shoe and hit him with it.

11

I see why you’re proposing this, given the reasons I stated above, but no. I wouldn’t apply the same logic to a different situation.

Well, there can be. I don’t think this situation qualifies, though, because, as you say:

Lining up a sports team for a photo isn’t something that takes a professional photographer. The fact that someone else came by and snapped a shot shouldn’t worry him, as the professional ought to have confidence that other factors make his work worth buying over the random snapshot. Lighting, choice of lens, exposure settings, angles, post production for starters. His skill should really go further than telling a group to line up.

Now, if someone was outside setting up a model shoot or product shot with static lighting, meticulously positioning and setting up every piece of equipment and the subject, and our OP came by and took a shot of that…I might respond differently.

12

Did anyone there see you key his car?

13

When I used to shoot weddings for pay, admittedly not much pay, after I took my posed shots I always stepped aside so the other folks could use my posing. I guess if I’d not done that I’d be rich by now. :smack:

14

Thanks all for your thoughts. I guess the thing that bugged me the most is that my intended uses were for organizations that would not buy a photo anyway. The newspaper doesn’t buy photos, and if they did, this guy probably couldn’t, or wouldn’t, submit it in time. The yearbook staff doesn’t purchase photos. I really didn’t take money out of his pocket.

I would not have ordinarily followed up his shots with my own. I was pressed for time, and the team had a game to play. I didn’t want to wait until after the game, since if we lost, as we did, it probably wouldn’t be a very good photo.

15

I’ve done that on a NYC sidewalk photo shoot and noone seemed to mind.

Of course I was using a cell phone but…

16

If he had the team in his private studio, he’d have a case. But just out in public, even if he did set up lights and what-not, it would still be legitimate for anyone to come along and take their own pictures.