Tell me about Pittsburgh

In My Humble Opinion
1

Mr. Neville’s search for a tenure-track job as an astronomy professor has been successful at last (yay! :smiley: ), and he has gotten a job offer from the University of Pittsburgh.

We haven’t decided yet if we’re going to accept the offer- we’re still waiting to hear from some other schools. We’re going to visit Pittsburgh late this month to see what it’s like (I’ve never been there, though I grew up in the DC area of Maryland), but I thought I would ask here first what it’s like. I know they have Trader Joe’s, so they’re at least somewhat civilized :wink: I think the weather’s pretty much like what I grew up with.

I have some specific questions (possibly more later):

Where are the neighborhoods where we could live like we do now- now, we can walk to the grocery store and to shops and restaurants?

Anyone know anything about the Jewish community in Pittsburgh, specifically the Conservative Jewish community? How easy or difficult is it to get kosher meat there?

How tolerant do people tend to be of non-Christian religious beliefs? Am I likely to run into jerks preaching at me or telling me I’m going to hell because I’m not Christian? Are the schools reasonable about keeping out religious stuff like creationism and proselytizing around Christian holidays? Are people generally tolerant of gays? (I’m not gay, but I’m very opposed to prejudice against gays, and I think a place’s tolerance of gays is a decent barometer of their tolerance of other people who don’t quite fit in)

What’s the outlook for someone looking for a tech job (Unix/Linux system administration) there?

Are computer geeks expected to wear suits to work there, or can we get away with something less formal? Could you get away with wearing a T-shirt, flip-flops, and shorts, like I do in California?

How’s the traffic? Do people typically commute long distances?

How easy is it to get to the airport, and how easy is it to fly from the airport to destinations around the US and the world? Are most of the flights to fairly nearby places on those little commuter planes (I hate those, since I tend to get airsick, and the smaller the plane the worse it is), or is it a real airport served by real planes?

How’s the selection and quality of ethnic foods in restaurants and supermarkets?

How vegetarian-friendly do the restaurants tend to be? We’ll eat vegetarian food (or food that includes kosher species of fish) in restaurants, but no beef, chicken, shellfish, or non-kosher fish like catfish. Would we have a reasonably easy time finding stuff we could eat in most restaurants there (as we do in most Bay Area restaurants), or would that be difficult?

I know they don’t sell wine in supermarkets there like they do here :frowning: but what are wine selections and prices like at the stores where they do sell it? What sort of hours do those places tend to have- do they close at 5 or 6, or are they open until a more reasonable hour for people who work?

2

Here’s a link to where you’d buy most if not all of your booze from. The only place you can buy hard liquor or non-PA wine is a Wine & Spirits Shoppe also called a state store. Local wine can be bought from the winery that made it (either on-site or at a satelite store). State stores are all closed by 9pm if not earlier Mon-Sat. Only 10% of them are open on Sundays and then from noon-5pm. Bars, restuarants, & delis sometimes sell beer to go.
Another thing you might not be used coming from CA is being asked “Smoking, non, or first available?” at most restaurants.

3

Congratulations to you and Mr. Neville. I have spent four of the past five years in Pittsburgh as an Architecture student at Carnegie Mellon, U Pitts next door neighbor.

Squirrel Hill is separated from the University of Pittsburgh by Carnegie Mellon. The neighborhood has grocery stores, restaurants and some shopping all within convenient walking distance from most of the residences.

Shadyside is known as one of the upscale Pittsburgh neighborhoods. It is also located on the other side of Carnegie Mellon, but it has a smaller downtown area that is even more compact than Squirrel Hill.

The JCC of Pittsburgh website provides a great deal of information concerning the Jewish community of Pittsburgh. I am sure that there is some information that you can find particularly useful. Personal experience with the delis and grocery stores in Squirrel Hill and even Shadyside has shown me that it is not difficult to acquire kosher meat.

Hopefully a registered Pittsburgh voter will be along to expound more on the public school system. Personally, I have encountered no problems with people preaching to me, but I am black so most people assume that I am Christian. My friends have not had any major issues either. I can tell you that they do display more Christian decorations around holiday time than I have ever seen but I grew up in a town with a very large Jewish population so I am very biased.

Not being gay it is difficult for me to say how open the overall city is, but having worked on several urban renewal projects in the city I do know that people are aware of the gay community and that some appreciate the work that they have done in restoring several neighborhoods that had fallen into disrepair and destitution.

Based on the retention rate of CMU graduates in the CS/IT fields, I feel comfortable saying that there are plenty of opportunities in the field of technology. The university employs a great deal of people but there are other businesses and industries in the area.

I am from New Jersey so to me the city traffic is less than in my home suburb and the distance commuted is also less. I guess the question that I should ask you is what do you consider a long distance? If you decide to live in Squirrel Hill and you work downtown then you will commute less than 7 miles each way.

I do not have a car but I can get from the corner of my street to the airport in about an hour by bus. In the car my friends and I usually make it in 30-40 minutes if we are not traveling during rush hour. It is a real airport served by real planes, but if you are going to the NYC metro area or DC then you will likely fly on a school bus with wings.

I have flown from Pittsburgh to Vegas, LA, Prague, Amsterdam, Mexico City and Atlanta so it does fly to real destinations that are more than 400 miles away.

To me, Pittsburgh is lacking in the area of Latin American food in both restaurants and supermarkets but I am very spoiled. They seem to have a small representation from several ethnic areas but it rarely exceeds 2 restaurants across the city.

I lived in the Bay Area as a child and I have gone back several times so I can tell you with certainty that although Pittsburgh does have a sizable selection of vegetarian-friendly restaurants, it cannot compare to the Bay Area.

4

I grew up in Pittsburgh, and I am a Pitt grad. I can answer most of your questions.

Walkable neighborhoods exist in the city itself and in certain other cities within Allegheny County and the metro area. However, in most areas you will need a car, especially given the poor state of public transportation in the region.

I would look at Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, or the Southside if I were you - funky areas with nice restaurants and some nightlife. The Strip District, Pittsburgh’s traditional wholesale district, has a booming nightlife and restaurant scene and some loft living now, and some lofts are going in Downtown as well.

Squirrel Hill is the traditional Jewish neighborhood of Pittsburgh, as well. Kosher meat won’t be a problem.

Pittsburgh is a pretty diverse place, if by diverse you mean Protestant and Catholic both. :wink: Still, people there tend to be friendly, if somewhat insular. The religious battles you see everywhere else you see there as well, but not to any greater degree. Keep in mind that the landmark Supreme Court case involving public display of religious symbols involved the ACLU suing the city of Pittsburgh over the display of a manger scene.

Pittsburgh isn’t a notably gay friendly town, especially outside of the city itself.

The outlook for tech jobs would be mixed. I’d concentrate a search around Pitt, CMU, other universities and health centers, and the banking industry.

Pittsburgh isn’t a terribly formal place, but shorts and t-shirts won’t work in most jobs.

Traffic really depends on the job and your home, as always, but it isn’t as bad as places like DC or the Bay Area since the area is so depopulated. Traffic tends to run in three dimensions, though, and there are more than 1,000 bridges in Allegheny County alone, so getting anywhere can be confusing.

The airport is relatively new, easy to get to, and since Southwest came in, you can get anywhere and usually pay a lot less than you did before. It is a major international airport used as a hub by US Airways.

As for ethnic foods, it depends what you mean by ethnic. You’ll have problems finding samosas and pho, but pierogi and bacala are readily available.

In the city, finding vegetarian choices in restaurants and markets should be relatively simple. Get a few miles out of town, though, and you’ll be reduced to getting the salad bar at an Eat 'n Park.

As for wine, you’ll be forced to buy it from a liquor store owned by the state. And while their hours are fine, their selection is not. It has improved in recent years, but the state sees no reason why people should choose between more than a dozen kinds of pinot, cabernet or zinfandel. On the bright side, the state line is just a few miles away.

I’m sure others will mention this, but you may be unprepared for the level of fanatic attention people in Pittsburgh pay to the Steelers. I’ve known people from other big football towns like Chicago or Washington thrown for a complete loop by this. My ninety year old grandmother watches Steeler games religiously, has done so for decades, and she’s hardly the only old lady in her neighborhood who does.

5

First of all, I’m going to preface this by saying that not only am I a native Pittsburgher, I am also a senior at the University of Pittsburgh in the sciences and am VERY familiar with the Department of Physics and Astronomy. My email is in the profile.

Yes, you are correct, we have a Trader Joe’s that recently opened in the East Liberty part of town.

The best way to describe Pittsburgh is as of a large conglomeration of small towns. Due to various restraints, mostly geographical (we’re a VERY hilly city), neighborhoods tend to be very independent and different from one another. You’ll find that in places like Shadyside and Squirrel Hill pedestrian life is the norm. Each neighborhood typically has a main drag so to speak that has restaurants, grocery stores, etc within walking distance. Keep in mind that the city has a very good public transportation system and it is very easy to get around, especially between the rivers. There are several neighborhoods within a short commute or even walking distance to Oakland (where Pitt is located) that meet this criterion.

The Jewish community is HUGE and prominent. In Squirrel Hill, the main Jewish part of town, there are several synagogues of the 4 main branches of Judaism. The Jewish Community Center is similarly huge in the area and features a huge clock at a main intersection with Hebrew lettering. There is a sizeable Chasidic community as well. I think there are 3 conservative synagogues within the city proper, not to mention the suburbs. I would wager that Pittsburgh has one of the largest Jewish communities for cities of its size–Squirrel Hill is home to several Jewish delis and bakeries (and the bookstore that runs www.judaism.com). The Squirrel Hill neighborhood abuts Oakland where Pitt is–it is a 10 minute bus ride. Here is one article from the Post-Gazette about the Jewish schools in the city: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07046/762315-258.stm

Pittsburgh is also a very blue city. In the area around my neighborhood there are several churches that are displaying banners saying “civil marriage is a civil right”. I think the numbers are something like 6:1 Democrats (meaning the city is totally controlled by the Democratic party machine for better or worse). You will not see much anti-gay sentiment or anything less than decidedly liberal in the city, that is about a guarantee. I make no promises about the very affluent suburbs. Public schools are similarly liberal for the most part–no influence from creationism or whatnot. I believe many schools

I honestly have no clue about tech job availability. I can tell you that with the steel industry gone, the city’s focus is toward technology and health services. Beyond that-no clue. I know google is opening some office of some sort at Carnegie Mellon. That’s all I got for you there.

Traffic is nothing compared to what you’re used to in California, but does exist. Commutes are typically unpleasant due to geography–this necessitates tunnels and bridges. If you are living in the city, the bus system is efficient enough that you will not need to commute. From the South Hills there is a light rail system that is reasonably good. If you are living in the North Hills or east, the commut will probably be fairly sizeable (by Pittsburgh standards) which means 20 minutes to an hour depending on where you live.

The airport is very good–Southwest, JetBlue, and most of the major carriers fly out of it. You will not by on the small prop planes. The city runs a shuttle to the airport as part of public transit that will get you to the airport quickly for $2.25. The airport is south of the city and quite accessible. Less so during afternoon rush hours out of the city. Traffic is only truly a problem during morning and afternoon rush hours and during Steeler games.

In terms of ethnic restaurants, the neighborhood around Pitt has a HUGE selection of ethnic cuisine in a variety of areas. One prominent one is the Indian population due to the hospitals near campus–there are several Indian restaurants as well as groceries in the Oakland area. Similarly, the Strip District downtown is well known for its huge variety of ethnic foods–it is essentially a giant ethnic food open air market. Its my favorite part of the city (free samples!). Bloomfield is the Little Italy and has several great restaurants (as well as one amazing Ethiopian place). I know of several vegetarian and vegan restaurants, plus many Kosher ones in Squirrel Hill. The area around the universities (Pitt and Carnegie Mellon essentially touch) caters to the typically liberal attitudes of the students; this includes vegetarian options.

Yeah our liquor laws suck, but the state stores have long hours (especially in the university area).

Pittsburghers tend to be very proud of their city and have strong regional pride. You’ll find that being a Steeler fan is a way of life and that it is THE conversation topic at work the day after and before games. If you have any more questions about Pitt or Pittsburgh, please post them or feel free to email me. Enjoy the visit!

6

Anne Neville:

I only know about Orthodox, but at least that will help you with kosher meat - the main Jewish neighborhood where the Orthodox live (and maybe the non-Orthodox as well? I don’t know, but it’s a place to start, at least) is Squirrel Hill. Murray Avenue is the main drag where Kosher fooderies can be found. I was last there in fall of 2002, but at the time, that street had a kosher chinese restaurant, kosher bakery, kosher pizza store and kosher supermarket. As a bonus, the kosher supermarket is right across the street from a regular supermarket, so it’s one-stop food shopping for both the things you need to specifically buy in a kosher store, and those that you can get kosher and cheaper in a regular store.
I love Pittsburgh as a vacation destination, the set of Carnegie Museums is top-notch, and kosher is never a problem.

7

Dont go if you’re naturally depressed. Pittsburgh has one of the highest depression rates in the country. Cite can be provided if requested, I think.

8

I don’t doubt people there are depressed. That’s due to their interesting habit of being chronically underemployed but never leaving to look for work elsewhere.

I love Pittsburgh, and I do want to move back, but it is truly the most insular place I’ve ever lived.

9

Ah I suppose I should comment on a few things Mr. Moto said. Public transportation in the city and south hills is very good and easy to use but VERY sparse outside of it. Most of what I said about ethnic foods and such is probably from my experiences living around the University areas. The Pitt and CMU areas in Oakland and Squirrel Hill definitely have the variety of ethnic and/or vegetarian options. I can’t speak the same for most of the outer suburbs. Same for most political/social beliefs–within the city and especially around the university it will be very liberal in all ways. It becomes much less so as you enter the 'burbs.

I 100% back up what Mr. Moto had to say about the Steelers. It really is crazy. If you are not a football fan, do your shopping during games. You will find all parking lots deserted. Schools had the day off for the Super Bowl parade. I’m sure they’d have sent everyone home early on the day of Roethlisberger’s motorcycle accident if it hadn’t been during the summer.

10

Oakland does not Pittsburgh make.

I’m sure you can get vegetarian food there. Outside of there they put french fries and steak on a salad, for Pete’s sake.

11

Touche sir.

12

My brother and his family live in Pittsburgh, and every time we’ve visited, coming from the wide-open and sensibly laid-out driving grid of the Illinois prairies, we’ve found the traffic flow to be mind-boggling–narrow streets, people driving like maniacs, nowhere to park, streets connecting at odd angles to each other. We invariably get lost at least once.

Drivers licenses for his four girls seemed pointless for years, and for his two eldest daughters were put off completely until the oldest one moved to Milwaukee for college, and the second-eldest got married and moved to Montana. They grew up riding buses everywhere from their home in a neighborhood by the Zoo. And my brother and SIL early on found ways to either bike or walk to work, just out of simple self-defence, driving a car in town obviously being the way to madness.

13

I can also contribute the following:

Pittsburgh is neither a pit nor a burgh :smiley:

14

It is a bewildering town to drive in at times.

Remind me to tell you about the custom of the “Pittsburgh left.”

15

Thanks! :smiley:

Oh! Like I do now on Super Bowl Sunday!

If we end up there, I’ll have to start tracking Steelers games…

I come from the DC area, which a friend of mine described the streets in as being like a plate of spaghetti. Since then, I’ve lived in Santa Cruz, where the 1 north runs southwest, and in the Bay Area, where the 580 East and the 80 West are the same road for a while. I’d probably feel out of place if I were somewhere where the roads did make sense. Plus I have no sense of direction, so it’s all the same to me…

Underemployed, as long as there’s not much risk of layoffs and I’m not underpaid, I don’t mind.

That’s good. I never vote anything other than liberal Democratic anyway.

How do they feel about Marylanders and Californians? I’m a bit of both at this point…

Maybe I will visit my folks in Western Maryland fairly often…

Having no sense of direction, I’m always bewildered when I drive…

16

You’ll see when you visit. Why just around Pitt there is a road that changes names twice at an intersection with the original name continuing at one 90degree angle. You start on O’hara and drive straight until it intersects, all at 90degrees to each other, bigelow from the right and parkman from the left. At this point the road you are continuing straight on becomes Bigelow until the next intersection where you intersect Bigelow from the left and if you would proceed straight it would now become Bayard. Its like the Seinfeld quote “How can the same street intersect with itself!? I must be at the nexus of the universe!” If so, the universe has two nexi, both at Pitt.

You are guaranteed that any time you go over a bridge, the street you are on will change in name. The downtown comes to a point, and most streets tend to be parallel to one of the rivers, so you get lots of non-orthogonal intersections. Plus the hills, so roads will divert around them on occasion. This doesn’t mention the South Side slopes where what on maps look like roads are actually public staircases that run up the side of the mountain. Yes, some people’s official mailing addresses are in fact public stairs, the nearest road is above or below the house.

17

Current U.Pitt student here, Junior math/CS. Also, open homo and Syrian/Israeli (yes, really). I think the location/Jewish/Kosher questions have been handled pretty well- Squirrel Hill & Shadyside are nice upper-middle-class places, Squirrel Hill’s especially Jewish.

People are generally tolerant of gays/non-christians, though on Campus you’re likely to get both extremes. Back when I played rugby, a handful gave me funny looks when they found out I was gay, but I never felt threatened or unwanted, including at parties where it’s 20-something beer-fueled jocks and me.
The Witnessers come out near Towers (the main Freshman dormitory) about 10 or 11 PM, but they mostly just offer flyers or a rant- they’re used to getting ignored by all the newly-atheist students. Once there was a organized Baptist hate rally, my Freshman year, it got mobbed about 4:1 by the Rainbow Alliance & Hillel folk within an hour.

There’s technology work aplenty here.

As IT staff for a law office, my friend Dan was expected to wear kahkis and a “decent shirt,” which in his case usually meant a plaid polo shirt. As a programmer (summer intern) for a technology firm in Monroeville (a nearby suburb), I get the same dress code, but haven’t worked yet to see what it actually means.

Commute- traffic’s either horrible or negligible. Most people don’t commute far out of the city (20 miles as an upper limit, most less than 10).

Airport- from the uni, it’s a 20 minute drive without any traffic, or an hour in worst-case scenario (taking the bus). The airport bus ($2.25, usually comes every 55 minutes) “28X Airport Flyer” is a threatened bus- they’re considering dropping the route, last I heard. No-one actually believes they’d do this, mind you, but it still might happen.
The airport itself is rather large (it’s an international airport, where there’s a mini-mall and mini-museum inside), so it gets large planes for large distances.

Ethnic food in restaurants/grocery stores is varied. The Strip District has obscene variety in both, Oakland (campus) has cheap restaurants of every ethnicity, and Atwood & Bates Streets (South campus) have 4 ethnic groceries I know of- Indian, Chinese, Mexican, and Italian. It’s impossible to find meat on campus, mind you, but everything else is doable.

I have no idea what finding vegetarian food is like, and I’m not 21 'til may, so I can’t help with the last two.

I’ll leave it to him, but remember to never gun a light the moment it turns green, unless you have the reflexes of a cat.

18

A lot of the people commenting here are from Pitt or its environs, which is fine. I grew up in the Mon Valley, which is a world away from that. There are still steel mills there - my brother works in one.

The region is dominated by Democratic politics, true, but it isn’t at all like Democratic politics in a place like San Francisco. It is based far more around a more populist, union friendly, and economic message. Social issues take a back seat to these. Gay rights aren’t much of a priority, like I said.

Pittsburgh is also far more religious than most big cities, which is largely a product of the strong role churches played in the lives of Italian, Irish, German, Eastern European and African American laborers in the boom years. Pittsburgh is more elderly than most cities as well, which also makes it more religious.

You should be prepared, too, to be bombarded by many stories in the paper about blatant and staggering cases of political corruption, which is endemic in Pennsylvania politics, infects Pittsburgh in particular, and does affect both parties.

The local music scene is smaller than San Francisco’s, but it is lively. Some of the local radio stations have sufficient autonomy from their corporate masters to include local bands in the rotation. The Pittsburgh Symphony is top notch, one of the best in the country, and the opera, ballet, and Civic Light Opera are also very good for a city of this size.

Pittsburgh is also an amazingly beautiful place. USA Weekend did a story some time ago about the most beautiful places in America, and the nighttime view of downtown Pittsburgh from Mount Washington was the number 2 pick. Golden Gate Bridge rated Number 5. Ride the incline up (you have 2 to choose from) and see the view for yourself.

There’s good and bad in Pittsburgh, same as anyplace. I haven’t lived there full time since 1993, but I’m back at least every couple of months. It’ll always be home in a way other places simply won’t be, and yes, I’m still a Steelers fan.

19

Pittsburg sucks!!!
::d&r::

20

For a good part of the year, you aren’t going to want to “get away with” a T-shirt, flip-flops, and shorts. You’ll be freezin’ your butt off!

Pittsburgh is a neat little city. Try one of the Italian, German or Eastern European restaurants there. Those are the folks that came to the city to work back in the day and you can get some fine eats there, but don’t expect most restaurants to be fancy or have formal service.

Topographically, you are going to find it to be similar to San Francisco (hilly). The cost of living is MUCH more reasonable!

There’s also a lovely photo of downtown at Wikipedia.