Tell me about the Twin Cities

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I have a pretty strong chance of getting a good job in Saint Paul. I’m really hoping that this will be a long-term move. But having never been there, I’m looking to collect some opinions about quality of life there. I have a wife and a young son with another kid on the radar.

The job is an excellent fit, nearly ideal on paper though I haven’t actually interviewed yet. (I realize I may be counting my chickens, but they only interview 3 people and I’m getting hints that I’m their first choice).

Here’s what I like about it:
(1) I love the idea of living in a city, and living close to my work. Both of these seem feasible in the Twin Cities.

(2) It seems like a really cool city. My wife and I lived in Seattle for 11 years and loved the culture there, and it seems like the Twin Cities have similar offerings.

(3) Remarkably affordable for a city of its size and sophistication.

(4) Reasonably strong public schools from what I understand, especially for an urban school system.

Here’s what I’m worried about:
(1) Winter! I grew up in Denver, so I’ve at least known cold weather, but nothing like the relentless weeks of cold that I hear about in the Twin Cities. Weather isn’t generally a top issue for me, but the weather issues are pretty extreme in this case. Can we handle it?

(2) How does it rate as far as natural beauty? I’m in Chapel Hill NC right now and I do miss access to, and views of, mountains and/or water (Seattle had it all). I hear there are a few lakes in Minnesota :stuck_out_tongue: – does this equate to natural beauty of the environment if one doesn’t happen to live on the lake shore? Again, not a deal-breaker, but it would be nice if I could enjoy some natural beauty without taking a 3-hour drive.

Thanks!

2

St. Paul resident here, for the past 15 years. Prior to that, I lived in the S.F. East Bay.

I’d say that all of your likes are correct; it’s a fairly quiet city, the Republican National Convention notwithstanding. Lots of nice, old houses (old meaning early 20th century), lots of places to take kids at any time of the year. The commute is going to vary wildly depending on how close you live to work and when you’re commuting, of course, but people here complain about a 30 minute commute, which (as a former SF Bay Area resident) makes me laugh.

I hate winter. I don’t think mankind was meant to live in climates like this. Probably one reason why the houses are so much cheaper here than in, say, Berkeley. Things have been kind of variable the past few seasons, but we generally get a month or two of below-freezing temps, and a few weeks at least of steady below-zero temps. We very rarely go below 15 below, and the wacky science experiment-level temp of 25 below happens only once every few years.

Snow happens. St. Paul isn’t as good about snow removal as Minneapolis (we spent our first winter in the area in Minneapolis), so you’ll be driving in wintry conditions from time to time, and that will also affect your commute.

This seems to be a city where, if it is possible to commute via bus, it’s a better idea. I always seem to be working about five miles off the bus line, so it hasn’t been much of an option, but it is doable, and avoids a lot of the hassle & personal property danger of driving in winter.

3

(1) I love the idea of living in a city, and living close to my work. Both of these seem feasible in the Twin Cities.
I’ve got a 10 minute commute from door to desk which I also have many different routes in case one is bad. There are some bad spots of traffic here, but nothing too agonizing.

(2) It seems like a really cool city. My wife and I lived in Seattle for 11 years and loved the culture there, and it seems like the Twin Cities have similar offerings.
Lots of live theater and definitely a stop for musicians (more in the summer than winter though). There’s also a ballot issue which may increase funding for the arts.

(3) Remarkably affordable for a city of its size and sophistication.
(4) Reasonably strong public schools from what I understand, especially for an urban school system.
Yup, in fact, I ran into another doper at our kids’ school on Friday night!

No, well, maybe,… eventually you’ll become numb to the coldness. No pun intended. I was born here and love it. Last night it dipped down to 31 degrees and I slept with the window open and a cuddly down comforter on top. (My SO doesn’t like that but puts up with it). There are some things that do take adjusting to, like getting a remote starter for your car for those really cold mornings when it takes 10 minutes to clean the windshield from all of the frost. My parents moved from here down to Tucson, they spend their really hot summer days inside in the A/C. It’s the opposite here where we’ll spend the really cold days inside.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the details. We definitely don’t have the mountains, but we do have the river bluffs along the Mississippi, the lakes and the state, county, and city park system. The city lakes have public access for the most part. There’s also the changes of seasons. We’re experiencing beautiful fall colors right now.
If you want to know more, please let us know. We’re a friendly bunch.

4

Two words: ice spiders. 'Nuff sed.

5

A mountain resort in West Virginia is one thing – the life-cleansing cold of Minnesota defies the capabilities of modern genetic engineering. (Assuming you’re speaking of this, of course – otherwise, please do tell, I like spiders!)

6

Minneapolis: Easy to navigate. Streets run east-west, Avenues run North-south. On the east side, you have numbered avenues. On the West side, you have alphabetical avenues.

St.Paul: Good Luck.

Minneapolis: A few good neighborhoods, a few really bad neighborhoods. Very bad police department. Somewhat racially segregated except in a few areas.

St.Paul: Couldn’t tell you about neighborhoods except to say that you don’t want to live on the east side. Better police department. Very racially diverse. We get a lot of immigrants and many of them settle in St. Paul. Very large Hmong, Somali populations, but also Arabs, other Asians, etc.

A pretty fair number of small colleges in both cities, but especially in St. Paul.

I lived in Minneapolis for 17.5 years. In the burbs before and after that.

In the summer, if you look out over either city or the older burbs from a taller building, you will not be able to tell where the houses are for all the trees.

The Theater community is a tad overbuilt, topped by the new Guthrie. Minneapolis Institute of Arts is nice. There are plenty of cultural events if you like that sort of thing. Ren Fest runs 7 weekends in August and September. Several local breweries (Summit, Surly, others), plus Leinenkugels is only over in Wisconsin.

Lots of parks, quite a number of lakes in the cities. Bike trails too. Heck, some of the outstate ones are astounding. Duluth is only a couple hours away (harbor, Lake Superior).

Our one light rail line runs from the Mall of America in Bloomington, past the Airport, to downtown Minneapolis. The next line will run from there to downtown St. Paul, and that should be done in about four years. After that, there is a plan in place for a northern run, and they’ve just started talking about a western run.

Metro population is about 3 million, fairly spread out. So it’s not like you’re going to lack for anything here. We’re not a hick town like we tend to get painted by TV people who’ve never been here.

7

All-in-all this sounds really nice. I wish public transport were a little more developed, but at least it’s moving in the right direction. I especially love that there are a lot of parks – that’s the impression one gets from the map, but it can be deceiving.

FTR, I’ll be working at a smallish college in Saint Paul (U of Saint Thomas), which appears to be very near the downtown zone and, from what I read, surrounded by nice if rather expensive neighborhoods.

I take it as a good sign that ‘holy crap beware the winters’ isn’t the very first thing out of everybody’s figurative mouth. I keep thinking ‘3 million people live there, and a whole lot of seemingly cool people live in Canada which is generally as forbidding as Minneapolis/St. Paul, so it can’t be that bad’. I hope I don’t regret this…

8

The area around St. Thomas is wonderful. I lived in that area as a kid (my mother grew up in that part of town) and we have friends in that part of town. If you want to move out to the 'burbs - its still commutable, the houses will be cheaper (Roseville would be close - we live in Maplewood). Brainiac4 is a Macalaster grad (a St. Thomas sister school and right down the street).

St. Thomas isn’t really a smallish college - it is a University with a law school and a business school - they are very proud of both - several campuses - just to warn you before you interview. They are Catholic (of course), have a strong relationship with a variety of donors - all this is probably worth looking into .

Winters - really it isn’t bad. You might want to check out the commute/parking situation - heated garage to heated car to heated garage is pleasant - twenty minutes standing in a stiff wind in three below weather waiting for a bus with a three block walk from the bus stop to your office can suck.

9

St Thomas has two campuses (or is it three, did they put one at the Mall of America?) The one at the end of the downtown zone would be in Minneapolis near Loring Park. That campus is smaller and dorm-less. The campus in St Paul is in the Macalester-Groveland neighborhood which stretches from the Mississippi River on up Summit Ave quite a few blocks but is about equidistant from both downtowns (about 10-15 minute drive.)

10

Four (?!):

St. Paul (the one on Summit)
Minneapolis
Owatanna
Rome, Italy

http://www.stthomas.edu/aboutust/campuses/default.html

11

Well, in that case, pick the Roman one, nicer winters. :smiley:

12

Hmm, I don’t seem to recall them offering me this as an option…plus, my Italian is a little rusty, in the sense of being non-existent…

13

I live about eight blocks from the Mac-Groveland campus, and used to rent to a student who walked to school. He was kind of nutso healthy, though, and didn’t mind the cold much. That part of town is also known as Merriam Park.

14

I loved living in the Cities. I’d still be there if I’d had better employment luck.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that the Cities ARE in an area where you’re likely to get at least tornado watches regularly from June to about October. It’s not as if the entire region is under seige by the weather gods all summer, but any good-size storm is likely to have a neighborhood or two under siren for five minutes or so.

Oh, and summers are as opposite hellish as winters…so far inland it’s hot and humid from late June to mid August. Air conditioning does much toward mitigating that, though.

15

Well, if you’re coming here soon, I have a recommendation:

RENT FIRST. Pick a place near your place of employment, in a nice building in a nice neighborhood. Off-street parking being an absolute requirement.

Get a 6-9 month lease. This will give you the winter to get settled in and used to your job and more familiar with the area. At the end of that time, you can choose to continue renting (but possibly in a different building) or decide whether or not you want to buy a house, and if so, where.

By then, you’d be looking at moving during late spring or summer, and things will be a whole lot nicer. Plus, you hopefully will have made a few friends* to help you move.

You’ll also know whether or not the job is working out.

  • While I’m on that subject, I have to throw in a caveat. “Minnesota Nice” means that people will be civil with you, but others who have come here from out of town can attest to the insular social atmosphere. I call this place “The Land of 10,000 Cliques”. Making friends can sometimes be difficult. The upside is that once you’ve broken into a circle or two, you’ll have a fair number of acquaintances that you see socially and who may or may not become closer friends.

(Example: A gaming group I played with for a short time consisted of four guys, then 36 years old, who had known each other since they were SIX. Needless to say, that sometimes made things a little uncomfortable for me, the Outsider.)

If you do martial arts, there are two Aikido places in St. Paul, one on, one just off University. Unfortunately, that’s always been a little farther than I’ve wanted to drive for evening classes.

16

As far as stuff for your kids to do the options are endless.
Things I’ve taken our 2.5 year-old to over the past 12 months:

-St. Paul Childrens Museum
-St. Paul Science Museum
-Mall of America Aquarium
-Mall of America Nickelodeon Park
-Valley Faire Amusement Park
-Anoka (Halloween Capital of the World) Halloween Parade
-Minneapolis 4th of July fireworks
-Minneapolis Christmas electric parade
-Minnesota Zoo
-Como Park Zoo
-State Fair
-Macy’s (7th?) floor Xmas display
-etc. etc. etc.

Here’s also a huge list of indoor(winter) and indoor parks around the area.

17

There is a pretty good bus system, though that can involve waiting at a bus stop in winter. Most of the bus routes follow the old streetcar routes. According to my parents, the streetcar system was really good, until it was destroyed by the evil Carl Pohlad, who now is destroying the Minnesota Twins.

In Minneapolis, there is a park within a half mile (6 blocks) of every house in the city, according to the Park Board. I suppose there might be a few houses somewhere in town where this isn’t actually true, but they would be rare. Possibly some of the condos downtown or in the warehouse district – but most of those are near the river, which is almost entirely enclosed in parkland.

St. Paul is probably similar in the total amount of parkland, but they have some larger parks (Como, Crosby Farm) and not so many small ones scattered all over like Minneapolis. And St. Paul itself is smaller – about 1/3 the physical size of Minneapolis.

18

Yeah, kind of like Danny Devito/Arnold Schwarzenegger “twins”… :smiley:

19

Heh.

20

Wait, what?

I’m going to hate you later, aren’t I?

This area’s great - I love it. I used to live in downtown St. Paul, and feel like I should warn you that downtown St. Paul is quiet. If you’re into nightlife (with kids, I’m guessing not too much), there’s not much of it in St. Paul. On the flip side, though, it’s easier to get a quiet table!