Tell me about your favorite deli food. (We're doing it!)

Cafe Society
101

Look, I’m going to be a bit harsh… I’m trying to get a sense of your “deli”- and so far, opening a place that is going to be a “lunchmeat shop” with no culinary experience or background either practically or on the business end is going to be a dead end… and taking hodgepodge advice without a clear vision from a message board is not smart either. My best advice is that you need to find something that you can make well, and homemade unlike any other, there is a reason Katz’s has been around so long and namely it is a tradition and feeling… probably specifically homemade Pastrami and Homemade pickles were the main key to their success… not to mention their special recipe “buy a salami for your boy overseas”. But my point is… what is goinf to seperate you from other Deli’s or a Publix or any other chain supermarket for that matter.

And please…please, hire somebody that has at least worked in a deli… make them your manager and pay them well.

102

:rolleyes:

103

Roll your eyes at your own peril and ignorance. Restaurant is a hard and cruel mistress.

104

I love the idea of a secret doper reference on the menu! Now I just need to figure out what would work. Hmmmm. Gotta put my thinking cap on.

Thanks!

105

I can understand your concern, but we aren’t totally without experience. We do have our menu pretty much planned and it includes salads and chili and soups, so we will be more than just a lunchmeat shop. But asking for advice and ideas from as diverse and smart a group of people as is available here, well I think it’s been one of my best ideas so far. Plus it’s free!

I’m actually torn about hiring someone with actual experience in a deli. We do want to be smart about this. But employees mean workers comp insurance and other expenses that we don’t have to incur if my husband and I can handle the volume of customers by ourselves. Plus I’d hate to hire someone only to have to let them go because we can’t afford to keep them.

Perhaps we should look into a consultant to help us get up and running, but we’re trying to be very careful with our money. It’s flowing rather quickly already and there are always things you didn’t count on.

In short, your advice about hiring a manager is not without merit and something worth considering. But what better place is there than here, to come to for free ideas to make us stand out from others is there?

Thank you for taking the time to respond. :slight_smile:

106

Authentic deli pickles, motzo ball soup and at least smoked meat on rye. Fly the meat in from NYC or Montreal if you have too.

107

Um…third sandwich on the menu called “Hi, Opal”?
-D/a

108

Easy, sandwich number three is the “Opal”.

Or if you’re going to have a lamb or mutton option . . .

ETA: Oops! Ninja’d by Ibanez. How did I miss that?

109

Re the OP I do love a good rare roast beef sandwich on a toasted “everything” bagel with sprouts, tomatos, red onion, cheese, lettuce, and a light dab of mayo.

I’ve never run a deli but as a commercial real estate broker I have sold and leased several delis and other small restaurants. or the real estate they resided in, after they failed, and the owners partnership, marriage or relationship has broken up, and they’ve declared bankruptcy.

Running a small food service business seems neat, but it’s a brutal, brutal way to make a living and unfortunately most of the time trying to be special, and high quality, and artisanal etc. only hastens their demise. Sometimes being too successful can also swamp a business as easily as not having enough customers.

There are success stories but they are far fewer than the failures. The “small restaurant” successes generally have a few things in common.

They don’t “trust” anyone and keep an eagle eye on inventory, receipts, and the register. They know people will steal if given even the smallest window of opportunity.

They are well aware upfront of what the real world “make or break” profitably targets are for the store and track income and expenses very closely.

They have negotiated a relatively cheap rent and have an “out” clause they can exercise on relatively short notice if the business is not making it.

They work brutal hours and have accustomed themselves physically and psychologically to a meat grinder life. This is a difficult transition for many people.

They beat the crap out of their suppliers for deals and are completely aware of what competitors are paying. Their suppliers are not their buddies or their friends.

They get the food out as quickly as possible. Hungry people are impatient and at lunchtime are on a limited time window. People on a lunch break may wait 15 minutes for a sandwich, but they will not do it more than once or twice.

They don’t take vacations for the first 5 years of running the store

They don’t get overly precious with expectations, They keep things simple and efficient and have limited menus

They are generous with portions of high profit stuff (ie fries chips etc)

They keep staffing at minimal levels and are super selective about whom they hire even for low level positions.

They use coupons when starting up (net or printed) to build traffic. Door hangers in surrounding neighborhoods are huge traffic builders

They are fanatical about clean bathrooms

They always check IDs when selling beer or wine

They have an emergency slush fund set up to be able to replace equipment to make major repairs if necessary. They do a lot of equipment maintenance themselves and are almost Jr league techs with some pieces of equipment

They know that a lot of people are out to fuck them out of as much money as possible and plan accordingly

They don’t “trust” anyone and keep an eagle eye on inventory, receipts, and the register (yes this is being repeated for emphasis)

Unfortunately the above is not always a good match for nice, trusting people with a culinary vision.

110

I just wanted to emphasize one point made by astro said: Be fast. Don’t make your customers wait in line for too long. Long lines put people off from your store (I’ve often skipped places that look really crowded), and limit the number of sales you can make in a given time.

Some chains are really good at moving their customers along; maybe you can do a quick store visit to see how they do it.

111

That’s great advice. There’s a bagel store near where I live where they have very quick turnaround; no one who’s been there before is daunted by a seeing a long line there because they know from experience that the line moves quickly.

112

Just remember that you can train someone with a good work ethic to cook. Better yet you can teach them to cook your food. Not to spread a brush too broad, but most of the chefs and the like I’ve worked with have been utterly useless at best and cost the store tons of money at worst. The most reliable people I’ve worked with had food service experience from working in the industry but weren’t chefs. If you’re going to hire, find yourself a workhorse and fire them fast if they’re not.

113

Sloppy Joes. You know, the good old school cafeteria, Manwich style ones. I only offer two bits of anecdotal evidence. My dad ran a deli/catering shop several years back. He’d make a bunch of Sloppy Joe sauce and keep some on a steam table. They sold VERY well, many customers came specifically for those. Also, when I lived down in NJ for four years, I frequented a Deli that offered Sloppy Joes once a week, and they always sold out, often by noon.

It’s a tasty, cheap, filling meal that has a comfort food appeal to a lot of people. And it’s pretty cheap and easy to make, with a good profit margin. Create your own unique recipe for the sauce, and serve it on good quality rolls, and it ought to be a good seller.

114

Astro, thanks so much for taking the time to make such an extensive list. I’m so grateful for all of the advice.

I think the one point you make that has me the most worried is the amount of hours it is going to take to make this work. And it is probably the issue my husband and I are arguing about the most.
He thinks we can do this in 8 or even 6 hours a day. I do not agree with him in the slightest.
I think it will take closer to 10 and maybe even 12.

In my years as an Office Manager, I learned that thieves come in all shapes and sizes, so I think I have a healthy dose of distrust built in theses days. Sadly.

I also have a lot of fear. Just as I solve one issue in my head that is freaking me out, another one moves to the forefront. Whether this fear will help or hurt remains to be seen.

I know how important good quality and generous portions are, so that doesn’t worry me. I’m a clean freak, so I’m good there. I am smart (ish) and hard working and I have always been highly productive. I really do work circles around most people. But, I’m also getting older and don’t have the stamina I used to have. I know we can’t keep people waiting when they are on lunch, so this concerns me a lot. I know we won’t have much time to get this right.

I am giving more serious thought to a consultant with deli experience. Harborwolf, you’re correct, it is not a chef we need. But someone that can teach us the day to day stuff we don’t know would be worth every penny. I can also get around the need for W/C insurance and setting up payroll with a consultant vs an employee. At least until we get a better feel for what our needs are in this regard.

I really can not ever thank all of you enough for all the helpful advice.

115

I’ve really enjoyed this thread and I had a recent personal experience that I feel is a good cautionary tale…

My wife and I discovered a little sandwich place a few months ago- They had a coupon in one of the local weeklys announcing their opening.
We went… and fell in love with this place. It’s called Root Beer Joe’s in Pasadena.
They served frozen yogurt and sandwiches- 8 kinds of sandwiches.
Great bread with generous meat portions with this delicious “garlicky” spread (I think it is garlic paste and mayo with maybe some wasabi in there? Very spicy and good).

Their hours were limited Mon-Sat 11:30 to 6pm. Often after work we’d be craving their sandwiches and debate whether we could make it there before closing. Some acquaintances of mine also fell in love with it and lived closer and went all the time.
I bought a large amount of sandwiches once to feed some people at an event and they all agreed these were the best sandwiches they had ever had.

My wife and I went back last weekend after about a month. We heard from my acquaintance that they were closed for a few weeks due some plumbing issue with their building.

When we walked up we were really excited because they had out a sign listing their new hours. 7am to 7pm… that seemed like a big jump but one that would make it a viable dinner option. There was also a line of people–not that big of a deal usually and we were glad to see them busy. When we got inside the place… we instantly became worried… now they had soup and pastries and espresso and that wasn’t at all what we came there for. Sure we were not the center of the universe for this place but…
The pastries were clearly from Costco. I recognize those muffins.
This place is very small and lacks a real kitchen so I know they aren’t making those soups in house.
I think they might have always had the espresso maker so I think they just made it more prominent. That was part of the problem.
It actually took me a minute of scanning the blackboard menu hanging above the counter to FIND the sandwiches listed.
The prices went up a little… but not a horrific amount. I think the “full sandwich” about 8 inches long used to hover around 6.50 and now it was 7.50. They also added some sandwiches (a teriyaki chicken for example)

So we ordered (1 full Italian and 1 full roast beef) and then waited… and waited. After a half hour checked in with the counter girl and sandwich prep guy. Their order system had gotten messed up and best I could figure was they gave the wrong sandwich to someone who had left and then had a mix-matched order that no one claimed- a half club and a full Italian… The full italian was ours and he hastily made a full roast beef… which was when I realized that the price had gone up and the sandwiches had shrunk by a 1/3.

They also had messed up the Italian and left off the cheese and salami making it just a ham sandwich… but it was still a REALLY good ham sandwich just not what we wanted. And the roast beef was just as good as it had always been…but we’ve never been able to finish a full. We always have a tasty third left to take home. We both finished our sandwiches without any problem.

I’m pretty forgiving but my wife is not. It’s not the same place that we fell in love with. She might begrudgingly go again if we’re really craving it. I’m not really going to recommend it as enthusiastically as before.
(I’m really curious to talk to my acquaintances to see if they have been since the change.)

So what I’m really saying is–Variety is nice… variety can also muddle everything and diminish what you do well.

116

Push You Down, That’s too bad. We certainly don’t want to make that kind of mistake.

Everyone we talk to tells us about a good turkey and feta sandwich that they used to get at this place when it was a cafe. When that many people mention it, we figure it is something we should consider, but another fellow that took over the bakery we’re hoping to do business with, has advised against it. So we’re torn about that too. We don’t want to make the menu too big and if we don’t get that turkey/feta sandwich right, it could hurt us.

We are searching for something to make us special, whether it is a spread like you mention or bread made only for us or something. I’m glad you’ve enjoyed the thread. And thanks for sharing that story.

117

Re: The root veggie soup and the black bean soup. I was thinking that you’d be making the rounds of the local farmers’ markets to obtain whatever is in season. So if your standard daily soup is chicken noodle (excellent choice, can’t go wrong), then the rotation soup would be based on what produce is in season right now. Which means, something with pumpkin and squash in it is right up your alley about now. You’re about to get into winter soups, which are usually heavier, cream based soups like mushroom barley or potato-leek.

Another cautionary tale.
There’s a place in my town called Soup Swift. It is poorly named because they are not swift; service is very slow there. They offer maybe 5-6 soups each day, 2-3 sandwiches, 1 salad, and have a few baked goods in a display case, like cookies and Rice Krispy treats (! Who doesn’t love those! Cheap and easy to make!).

My beef with the place is their 1/2 soup-1/2 sandwich combo. You get about 8 ounces of soup and a tiny little sandwich… for $10. If I’m going to pay $10 for soup and a sandwich, I expect leftovers, not to still be hungry after I’ve eaten. So watch your price points in relation to portion size. You want to give people a generous enough portion so they feel they are getting a good value at the price, and at the same time you want to make a profit.

Also, and finally: Don’t blend the soups. I like to chew my food. I don’t like soups I can drink out of a straw. I can’t really think of any soup I’d prefer blended with the possible exception of tomato bisque. That’s the other problem with Soup Swift: most of the soups are blended. I get that must be easier for the chef, but it feels like you aren’t really eating anything, if that makes sense.

Another idea might be to have some of the most popular sandwiches and soups prepackaged to go and kept in a little counter cooler or something, so that customers can run in, grab something to go real quick, check out and go nuke their soup back at the office or something. The deli line is for people who want something specific or something that’s not in the quicky to-go display case.

118

Oh yeah, the line-ups. That’s really important. If it’s not clear who’s in line,a nd who’s waiting to pick-up, and whether it’s ok to breeze up to the counter if you just came for a candy bar, then the result is customers who feel uncertain and maybe even nasty toward each other. I find the places where I feel a sense of homey camaraderie are the ones where the rules are obvious.

P.S. Has enough time passed for me to sate my curiousity by asking about the paint colors? What did you settle on? What was the beef about?

119

Seconded and thirded. For the carry-out customers, simplify the options to maximize speed. Picky customers have counter service to get exactly what they want. Time-pressed customers will gladly live with the limitations of the fridge.

If you’re going to do this, test out the breads and fixings to be sure they don’t end up a limp mush after a few hours wrapped and chilled. Some places put the lettuce and tomato slices in a plastic wrap separated from the rest though it might be better to design take-out sandwiches that don’t require wet ingredients.

For the selection, I’d limit it to a maximum of 5 sandwich types: three basic, two fancy that change on a regular, even daily, basis. Similarly, do not go crazy with 50 similar kinds of sides on grab 'n go. Two or 3 flavors of potato chips, a couple soups, 2 or 3 cold salads. I do not want to wait behind someone who can’t decide between the dill potato salad, the German potato salad, and the red potato salad or the tomato bisque and the tomato basil soups.

This may sound odd but make the breads different shapes. For instance, the ham and cheese is always on square wheat bread, the Cuban on an oblong roll, and the tuna salad on round poppy seed roll. When I’m doing the lunch run for the office, I can quickly pick up 5 squares, 3 round, and 1 long instead of reading labels to find the hams, tuna salads, and cuban, respectively. At the office everyone can find their sandwiches without pawing through them all. Everyone wins.

120

A depressing but important thing to think about ahead of time. I’ve been watching a lot of Ramsey’s Kitchen Nightmares about people’s failing food places lately. Its so bad it often freaks ME out thinking what these people are under. 250k, 500k, 800k, 1.2 mill, 1.5 million dollars in the hole. And their houses morgaged to the hilt. Their whole life savings and retirement invested (friends and families money invested too). People at or near retirement age. All running businesses that are just digging the hole deeper day by day. People who have been running them for years and they’ve never made a profit. Places where they need to have 10’s of thousands of dollars of business a week just to break even, much less dig themselves out of that deep ass hole. And they got more staff than customers.

For the love of God, don’t turn yourself into one of those people. Decide ahead of time exactly how much money you are willing to loose trying to make this dream happen before you’ll walk away. When you hit that…walk away. Don’t dig the hole deeper and deeper and deeper.And try to set up youre rent/loans/whatevers so that you can do that in a way that allows to do so.

Good luck.