Two people in one day (today) told me that I should consider a government job and specifically mentioned the pension. OK, OK, the second person was ralph124c and I think he may have been telling **Red Barchetta **, but anyway I overheard it. But it made me think for a second, as if it was a cosmic message I’m not supposed to miss. I know this is broad, but can you tell me about your current (or former, if the info is still applicable) government job? Did you hate, tolerate, like, love it? Hours? Pay? Pension/Benefits? What did you do? Are you glad you had that job? How long were you there? Or…whatever you feel like sharing. Thanks in advance.
Tesseract, are you still a student? If so, you might want to think about getting a federal government internship before shooting for a full-on job, see if it feels like a good fit. The Department of Transportation has a top-notch summer internship program for undergrads, grad students and law students. They’ll set you up with the FAA, Federal Highway Administration, or what have you, and pay you $5,000 for the summer. ($4,000 if you’re an undergrad.) They’ll also set you up with free housing if they need you to move for the summer, and they pay for air fare. I did a stint with them last summer, and had a really great experience. Here’s a link: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/education/stipdg.htm
I love my government job, for the most part.
But what the public believes about the pension is way out of date. If I work for 30 years I get 30% of my pay. There’s also a Thrift Savings Plan, which is like a 401K, and the employer matches the first 4% of it.
Everything else is on you.
I don’t have time right now to go into some of the other characteristics of working for the government. But I bet by the time I get home from work today, this thread will be full.
I guess it depends on where you want to go and what you want to do. I’ve worked two different fed jobs in the past ten years. There are some real crazy people around here, some of them couldn’t get a job anywhere else. I also find that they don’t seem to give out information that employees will need. Hell I’ve just learned something about retirement from GMF. The only people who get talked to about retirement here are the people who will retire in a couple of years, otherwise nothing.
I’m sure different departments share things differently, but the two places I worked were pretty much the same. I still ask people about what I can expect when I retire and no one seems to know. Then again, my job is boring and a trained monkey can do it, at least I think we have a couple around here.
I worked as a graphic artist for a Navy training command for 12 years.
I liked the job a lot and missed it when I left (we ended up moving out of the area because my husband had left the Navy and was having trouble finding decent work there). The pay was very good for the area I was in, but would be much less so in a high cost of living area, though you do get locality pay to try and make up the difference in those places (like northern Virginia, where there are a lot of government jobs and a pretty high cost of living. I would not have wanted to live there on my pay, even with a locality adjustment).
The medical benefits are excellent, and I’d say that’s one great advantage of a government job.
As far as retirement benefits, pensions these days are much smaller, so in order to be well set for retirement, it’s imperative that you participate in the Thrift Savings Plan, the government’s 401K. It’s a well-managed plan, and I left my money in there when I quit. I am pleased to see how it has grown. As has been previously mentioned, the government will match up to 4% of your salary in TSP contributions, so that’s a very nice bonus as well.
Thanks for all the info so far. Mr. Excellent, no, I’m not still a student. That internship possibilities sounds great for one – I’m going to recommend them to some students I know. OK so from what you all have said, the pensions aren’t as good as they used to be, but they do exist. And good medical benefits are a huge deal, I think. I live in San Diego, so high cost of living on a govt salary is a little scary. I hesitate to go too much into my resume because it’s so varied and takes awhile to explain, but I actually am a lawyer. I worked about 4 years in law and just had about 3 years in a totally unrelated to law job. I’m just not sure that I want to work in the private sector again. I just wrote and deleted about three paragraphs in this post that were very helpful to me in figuring out what I want to do…I’m not going to post them now, but this thread is helping me sort out my thoughts. Still interested in other perspectives on govt. jobs. Thanks!
I’m a lawyer for the feds, as is anu-la. I’ve got 21 years in and no plans on going anyplace. Basically I get paid a salary that allows a very comfortable standard of living, with little to none of the stress involved in most law jobs. I NEVER work on weekends, and RARELY stay late - which is important to me. I choose to work to live, not the other way around.
I think that is a common thread most advocates of gov’t work will mention - it allows you to have a decent quality of life. After 15 years you get 5+ weeks of leave a year, not to mention all the holidays. Plus, most jobs allow you to report to work at any time within a flexible band - mine is from 6-9:30. And if you work longer than 8.5 hrs in any day you can get credited with “comp time” which is pretty much just like annual leave.
The health benefits are good - but not necessarily better than any major corp. Basically I’ll have 3 elements to my retirement income: TSP, pension, and social security - which after 34 years will be somewhere around 80% of my current take-home pay. And bonuses are small and few.
Also, the gov’t is so huge, there are often possibilities for relocation, transfers, etc. Some agencies are higher graded than others - you might want to check it out ahead of time just so that you don’t get stuck on a lower track.
As a general rule, in terms of pay law jobs generally go:
local govt<state govt<fed govt<corporate<private practice
In terms of stress I’d rank it:
private practice>corporate>many govt
Obvious exception: AUSAs work their asses off and get paid only a little better than I.
The downside is I get absolutely no personal enjoyment/satisfaction out of any element of my job duties. of course, I worked in private practice got no satisfaction out of that either. Not too many folk out there offering me my current income to play golf, read novels, garden, and nap!
And yeah, there is a ton of deadwood in most gov’t offices I’ve encountered. Which can be frustrating if you focus on the fact that they essentially get paid the same as you. OTOH, by their very existence they make you look good if you are barely competent.
Feel free to ask any specific questions.
Do you know about USAJobs ? This is the Federal Government’s Official jobs website. There are two Patent Attorney Vacancies in San Diego now starting at 67K FWIW to give you a ball-park.
Health Insurance and the stability are two of the things that are attractive about federal service to most people I know.
Lack of upward mobility (there are structured salaries - even for top performers) and pay on the whole lower than the private sector are the things most people complain about
I know many folks on both sides of the fence. Anecdotally most contractors would take a bit lower pay for the federal stability and I know of no one the other way 'round (possibly because presumably they already would have already made that happen - easier to get out than in)
Yeah, the stability is HUGE. Over the past 5 years or so I’ve had many friends in business be downsized, and seen lawyers experience law firm upheavals/politics. Really sucks. Whereas unless I essentially TRY to get fired, my paycheck’s gonna keep coming. That security’s worth a ton when you have a family.
Plus, you get an annual COLA tied to inflation, and depending on where you are on the GS scale, bumps to the next step every 1, 2, or 3 years.
Oh yeah and internet for cruising the Dope! 
immmy, thanks for the link. I’m going to check it out. Dinsdale, some of the things you have said sound very attractive. The lifestyle thing is pretty huge for me. The two years I spent in a law firm were without question the worst two years of my life, and there were several reasons for that, but one of them was that I absolutely had no life, and another was my off-the-charts level of stress. Stability is also very attractive. However, I don’t really want to work fulltime the rest of my life. We want kids and I’m 35 so we have to get moving on that, and I’m not ultimately planning to be the main breadwinner.(Right now, I’m not a breadwinner at all, but anyway.) My husband doesn’t make enough for me not to work at all, but his salary will be going up if our plans for him work out. Some of the things that make working for the government very attractive (good pension, stability) might not be as relevant if I plan to just work for awhile and then cut out once my husband starts making more…on the other hand, it would still provide a better quality of life for the time I do work, I bet. Can you work part-time as a lawyer for the feds? I’m guessing no.
Agencies can differ. Also, our agency differed over time. When I started, there were many part-timers - mostly working mothers like you suggest. Then there was a period where the agency seemed to go out of its way to screw with them and for a while we had none. Now we’ve got at least a couple of women who after maternity leaves work less than a 40-hour week, but I don’t inquire into their specific circumstances or reasons.
We also have “flexiplace” which allows you to work at home 1 day a week. Some lawyers work at home 2 or more days. Again, differs by agency. Of course, you aren’t supposed to be caring for someone while working at home, but at the least it eliminates the commute.
You can have pay withheld pretax for health care and dependant care, which saves a few bucks. And our agency (and I think most feds) seems pretty generous in terms of allowing leave for maternity/family friendly reasons. Tho I think most of it other than accumulated sick leave is unpaid. But you can stay off for 6 months and come back to your job. There is no short-term disability, just whatever sick leave you accumulate at 4 hours every 2 weeks.
Add in the flexibility you have regarding taking leave in short increments, and I think you’d have a hard time finding a better job for a family’s 2d income.
Another thing - your fed service credit is forever. So even if you work for a year and quit, if you rejoin any federal job after your kids go back to school, you’ll step in with 1 year “seniority” under your belt as far as leave, retirement, etc. is considered.
Wow, those are more good things. Very intriguing. OK, so you’ve probably talked about it on the boards before, but what do you do exactly?
This seems to be possibly less important as life goes on. Yeah, I’d love it people would pay me to go on cycling trips in Tuscany, but so far that hasn’t happened. I – um – have decided to save the world in more modest manner than I planned to at 21, so it’s not quite as important that what I do just to pay the bills has cosmic, global MEANING. Other things can still have that. But, answer me this: do you dislike your job duties? OK, they give you no plus-side satisfaction, but is it sort of torturous to perform them? Is there any fun in the challenge of it, or even if it’s not a challenge, is there any satisfaction in the fact of completing your tasks?How hard is it for you to drag yourself to work in the morning?
I’ve been a civilian employee for 22 years as of yesterday, with just over 33 years total federal service. I’ve had opportunities to do things that I’d probably never have had in the real world. Despite the bad mouthing many govvies get, the vast majority of my coworkers over the years have been dedicated, hard-working, and very competent. Yeah, there have been slackers, but my husband worked in industry, and he had his share of slackers, too, so I don’t think that counts.
I can retire in January 2010, at which time I’ll have over 35 years total service. My pension will be almost 36% of my high-3 (an average of your 3 highest years of pay) plus my TSP (the 401k equivalent) plus Social Security 6 years later (as long as there’s sitll money in that bank.) Along with the job security, I’ve always had excellent health insurance options, great sick leave and vacation leave, 10 Federal holidays each year, and I just happen to be in a position now where I can truly make a real difference - talk about job satisfaction!
It’s been great for me, but I’m ready to retire. And I shall, as soon as I hit the magic number of 56! 
I’ve worked for the same agency in 4 different locations (over 18 years), and concur to a degree with this. When I worked in New York City, about 15% of the employees were the type that would NEVER cut it in private industry - they were nuts, lazy, just plain weird, or some combination of the three. There was one guy who called a bomb threat in FROM HIS DESK and STILL kept his job! There is another guy there who probably has done less work in his entire career (19 years, I think) than I have done since Thanksgiving! But the other three offices didn’t really have any employees like that; I think large cities/offices are far more likely to have that type of weirdness going on.
Also, I don’t know if any has mentioned this benefit, but in my agency, after 15 years, you start to accrue annual leave at the rate of 8 hours every 2 weeks. That’s a great benefit.
Almost forgot; as my example shows, government employment can be good if you like to relocate every so often.
It’s standard for full-time federal employees. And it’s definitely niiiiiiice!
State and local government, represent!!!
Did I just establish myself as old and out of touch? I thought so …
I’ve spent half of my professional career in local government and half in state government, and there are ups and downs to both. Agencies at all levels need lawyers 
I’m in the environmental field, and I’ve had government jobs that I loved, hated, and everything in between in the space of a week. I don’t think it’s all that different from any other workplace, really, other than the lack of focus on profitability. I’ve heard enough stories from my friends in the private sector to know that government jobs certainly don’t have the corner on the slacker market.
I currently work for the state; I make more than some people I know at the local level with equivalent qualifications / responsibility / experience, and less than others. It all depends on the actual agency they work for - city, county, regional, quasi-governmental … in Indiana, at least, each unit sets its own pay scales and has different benefits. Our medical coverage at the state is currently pretty good, but it has steadily declined over the last 5 years. I get 12 vacation days, 9 sick days, 3 personal days, and 13 or 14 paid holidays per year. Starting next month I’ll actually get 3 more vacation days per year, based on longevity.
Downsides to state and local government employment - as you get more local, I think you feel the effects of politics more (federal employees, feel free to contradict me!). I know I was definitely more affected by elections in local government than I am now. You’re unlikely to get rich. You’ll start taking those “lazy government worker” comments a bit personally. Otherwise, it’s a pretty good gig.
I work for state government. Each state, and local government, has a different set-up as far as health insurance, retirement, and other perks.
Washington State, like most states, has an Attorney General’s office, so lots of lawyers work there. Individual agencies also need their own lawyers. The social services agency here has a bunch of different positions—claims officers, administrative judges, etc.—that require a law degree.
State of Washington pension has two plans for new hires: Plan 2 is a defined benefit plan. These are the plans that everyone talks about when they say that government has great pensions; unfortunately they are going the way of the dodo. The way it works is you work until 65 to get a full benefit (actuarial reductions will kill your pension here), get X percent of your five highest pay years, for a maximum of 30 years, so your maximum retirement would be 60% of your highest salary (2% x 30 years). Plan 3 is a defined benefit/defined contribution plan. Defined benefit part is work until 62 to get a full benefit, get X percent of your highest paying 5 years based on 1% x years worked, no maximum. Defined contribution is a percentage you chose to contribute (5%, 10%, etc). Plus we have a Deferred Compensation program that you can put money into for retirement, up to a certain percentage of your pay.
We start out earning 8 hours sick leave and 8 hours annual leave a month. You work your way up to earning a maximum of 14.67 hours of annual leave a month (22 8-hour days a year). You can accrue annual leave to a maximum of 240 hours before you start to either use it or lose it. You can accrue unlimited sick leave.
Health insurance is no longer as awesome as it used to be, but we still only pay a portion of our premiums. I pay $50 a month for my spouse and I for a HMO (co-pays and a minor deductible are my out-of-pocket expenses). Considering how much my husband uses our health insurance, I absolutely need the coverage.
I have worked for three different state agencies, and each on has a different ‘culture’ and feel to it. I worked in our state’s general administration agency (the agency that supports the other agencies) and our state’s retirement systems agency. Both of those agencies are customer service agencies, though our customers are other government employees. The culture at GA was of a much put upon, under-funded agency always on the ropes. It has the least stable jobs because it gets the most cuts. Retirement was pretty laid back because we had guaranteed funding from the pension plans, so unless the pension plans run out of money, there will always be money for staff.
I now work for our state’s environmental agency now, and it is pretty laid back with lots of flex-time. I work a 4-10 schedule and have not worked a Friday (except for special circumstances) in over 13 years. We have bunches of tele-commuters, too.
When my husband was undergoing Hep C treatment and couldn’t work, my agency let me work half time for 9 months. The state has an excellent shared leave plan where my co-workers donated enough time to cover all the time off I had to take, so I was still paid my regular salary. My husband was employed by the state at the same time, and barely got enough shared leave from his co-workers to keep him on the books as an employee. My husband is now disabled (unrelated to the Hep C) and my employer still works with my need for flexibility.
I couldn’t live on my salary in Bellevue or Seattle, or a good portion of the westside of the state. But here in Yakima, I’m firmly in the upper middle class. So it depends on where you live whether the pay is good.
In short (HA!), I find government employment at the state level to be pretty damn awesome.
ETA:
Local government elected officials can make life hell for government employees. They think they are special.
I work for state gubment, and so far I don’t have too many complaints. I like the security, leaving work at work and not being penalized for it, and the benefits. My agency also rewards hard workers, and there are a number of opportunities to advance. Schedules are also flexible, and the atmosphere tends to be relaxed (no one wears suits; some people even wear sneakers).
The beaucracy is beauCRAZY, though. We have to jump through stupid hoops to purchase something as small as a paperclip. And job applicants are screened in a very proscribed way. My interviewer (who’s now my boss) was forced to interact with me like a robot, sticking to a script during the whole process, because of rigid government policies. I think that’s how so many nutjobs (myself excluded) get hired.
Okay since you were looking for specifics I looked up the legal staff at the large municipal agency I work for. The only salary schedule I couldn’t find was for the General Counsel, but you should be able to get a general idea of what range it would fall into. With a current staff of 15 ( no, they’re not hiring 
), the potential positions look like this:
Law Clerk - Max out at $46,596/year
Legal Secretary I - $56,712
Legal Secretary II - $64,200
Senior Legal Secretary - $78,252
Litigation Secretary - $78,252
Paralegal - $78,252
Attorney I - $75,144 - $108516, control point = $97,680
Attorney II - $91,569 - $132,252, c.p. = $119,218
Attoney III - $106,164 - $153,348, c.p. = $138,012
Assistant General Counsel - $120,168 - $173,568, c.p. = $156,216
Chief Trial Attorney - $120,168 - $173,568, c.p. = $156,216
With that you get 15 paid holidays, 13 paid sick days, 2-5 weeks paid vacation ( can accumulate up to 10 weeks a year ), very good health benefits ( comparably ), a pension plan of 2.62% a year @ 54 + plus optional 401K ( no employer contribution ) + set insurance benefit for retirees ( currently $550/month towards health care for families ). In addition there are adminstrative leave days, merit bonuses and flex hours for the more senior positions. Keep in mind that this is for a large agency in the most expensive part of the country to live.
All in all I’ll reiterate the pluses and minuses already listed by others. I like it, but it is not for everybody. Ten years is about the limit for job switching. Beyond that you become “institutionalized” and are no longer willing to surrender your comfortable retirement for exciting new opportunities :D.