[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
Look, you said “No, actually, FDR’s programs have fit perfectly within a constitutional framework”. For many of FDR’s programs, your statement is demonstrably false.
[/QUOTE]
I know of only two: NRA and first AAA, that were declared unconstitutional – by the “Four Horsemen” plus one other justice. I believe there was another one as well. most of FDR’s programs were deemed constitutional, albeit by stretching “interstate commerce” vastly out of shape.
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
Actually, I’d also like to respond to this. How many bureaucracies have you worked in? I’ve not worked in a lot, but certainly enough to know that this sentence is nonsense. An agency headed up by a brilliant bureacrat is a true pleasure to work within. One headed up by a self-centered idiot is a misery to work within. Likewise, the competence of one’s coworkers within an agency can make all the difference in the world.
Daniel
[/QUOTE]
Precisely. I DO have experience in government employment, under both excellent and mediocre agency heads, and the difference in how the department I worked for operated – within exactly the same legislative and regulatory framework – was clear and unambiguous.
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
As an addendum, I should add that the reason this country is so ill-equipped to function as a nanny-state is that is was designed from its inception to allow its citizens to be free of government control over their lives.
[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, that’s why there were laws protecting slave owners, blue laws preventing stores from being open on Sundays, prohibition of adultery and fonication, bans of interracial marriage, restrictions on what drugs you can use and a brief prohibition of alcohol, outlawing celebration of Christmas in Massachusetts, etc.
[QUOTE=Polycarp]
I know of only two: NRA and first AAA, that were declared unconstitutional – by the “Four Horsemen” plus one other justice. I believe there was another one as well. most of FDR’s programs were deemed constitutional, albeit by stretching “interstate commerce” vastly out of shape.
[/QUOTE]
It was more than the two you mentioned:
1935 Jan 7: Panama Refining Co.v. Ryan, 293 U.S. 388 (1935) Held: National Industrial Recovery Act Sect. 9(c) unconstitutional
1935 May 6: Railroad Retirement Board V. Alton R. Co., 295 U.S. 330 (1935) Held: Railrod Retirement Act unconstitutional
1935 May 27: A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v. U.S., 295 U.S. 495 (1935) Held: National Industrial Recovery Act unconstitutional
1936 Jan 6: United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1 (1936) Held: Agricultural Adjustment Act unconstitutional
1936 May 18: Carter v. Carter Coal Co., 298 U.S. 238 (1936) Held: Bituminous Coal Conservation Act of 1935 unconstitutional
1937 Mar 29: West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish, 300 U.S. 379 (1937) Held: State of WA minimum wage law constitutional
1937 Apr 12: N.L.R.B. v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. 1 (1937) Held: NLRA constitutional
1937 May 24: Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548 (1937) Held: Social Security tax constitutional
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
It was more than the two you mentioned:
[/QUOTE]
Three more. And I’ll gladly amend my statement to say that the Bituminous Coal Conservation Act of 1935, and a couple other programs, were ruled unconstitutional and therefore not within our nation’s framework. Other programs, such as the NLRB and Social Security and WPA, were within that framework.
Daniel
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
It was more than the two you mentioned:
1935 Jan 7: Panama Refining Co.v. Ryan, 293 U.S. 388 (1935) Held: National Industrial Recovery Act Sect. 9(c) unconstitutional
1935 May 6: Railroad Retirement Board V. Alton R. Co., 295 U.S. 330 (1935) Held: Railrod Retirement Act unconstitutional
1935 May 27: A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v. U.S., 295 U.S. 495 (1935) Held: National Industrial Recovery Act unconstitutional
1936 Jan 6: United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1 (1936) Held: Agricultural Adjustment Act unconstitutional
1936 May 18: Carter v. Carter Coal Co., 298 U.S. 238 (1936) Held: Bituminous Coal Conservation Act of 1935 unconstitutional
1937 Mar 29: West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish, 300 U.S. 379 (1937) Held: State of WA minimum wage law constitutional
1937 Apr 12: N.L.R.B. v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. 1 (1937) Held: NLRA constitutional
1937 May 24: Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548 (1937) Held: Social Security tax constitutional
[/QUOTE]
Nice job of documentation – may I compliment you on arguing with evidence, even though it was against my position?!
Some comments:
Panama and Schechter together address one of my two listed items; Butler, the other. I noted there was one other I didn’t recall; that would be Carter, which I had drawn a blank on remembering when I posted.
As regards RRB v Alton RR, you are correct that the Railroad Retirement Act of 1934 was in fact declared unconstitutional – owing to the fact that certain inseparable provisions in it were unconstitutional. These were corrected in the Railroad Retirement Acts of 1935 and 1937. (I was a bit surprised to learn this detail, as my grandfather and my uncle had retired on Railroad Retirement pensions.) So: points to you for an important detail, but longrange the New Deal policy of providing old-age pensions through Social Security and Railroad Retirment did pass constitutional muster.
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
… I would be delighted if some sort of way could be found for government to pay for health care insurance coverage for everyone … everyone gets covered, the government pays the premiums and collects whatever taxes are necessary to do so …
[/QUOTE]
Socialist!
CMC fnord!