Tell me why he shouldn't die, you candy-asses.

[tiny_ham]

Besides the obvious statement that has been made that being against the death penalty != loving child killers…

I have a hard time with the death penalty, and it’s mostly due to this board, and the intelligent discourse I’ve read on the subject. I used to think it was cut and dried: you killed someone, you should be killed for that. Done.

Of course, Jesus, whom I believe in and follow (I’m not saying YOU have to, just giving background), tells us NOT to do so, He tells us NOT to take an eye for an eye, and to turn the other cheek. Forgive seven times seven and all of that stuff that seems impossible to mere mortals like ourselves.

That being said, we cannot just turn the other cheek to a man who has done multiple horrific things against God, man, nature and everything else, and as a human being, with feelings, I just want to scream and have revenge and say “SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR THIS! BECAUSE WE’RE ALL HURTING.”

But is it our place to decide who lives and dies? And do 50,000 wrongs make a right? I think people get a visceral pleasure out making someone suffer if they made US suffer and it brings a temporary relief to unbearable pain, but in the end, what does it do? Does it bring back our loved one?

I value ALL human life, and to take a human life doesn’t really do much to prove how much I care about the previous one.

Call it fate, or karma, or hell, or the great cosmic flipping of the bird, but I think that if he is proven guilty and thrown in prison forever, there is a greater punishment awaiting him somehow.

Sorry for rambling.

[the_Lady]

I don’t follow Kinthalis - people are suggesting that life in prison is a more fitting punishment for horrible crimes than the death penalty. I was pointing out that very rarely does life in prison actually mean life in prison. I think it’s relevant. People call for the death penalty partly because they want the criminal punished - if they could be sure a vicious multiple murder could be locked up forever with no chance of getting out on parole; some might not be calling quite so loud for his execution.
Again, I must use the Canadian judicial system as an example, but around here if you are sentanced to twenty years in prison, you will likely be out in ten or less. That’s if you are even faced with a punishment that severe.

[Shodan]

@Gomez

On a more serious and less hyperbolic note, as long as the death penalty exists there will be mistakes. It’s not a risk, it’s a mathematical certainty. States which employ the death penalty are aware of this and are condoning innocent deaths in pursuit of some Utilitarian idea of a greater good. Repeatedly. I object to the death penalty, partially because I feel that life imprisonment is a harsher punishment but mainly because I object on general principle to living under a Government that kills innocent people in a far crueller and more deliberating fashion that the murderer’s we’re supposed to be punishing.

This makes no sense whatever.

Those who claim to oppose the death penalty because [list=a]
[li]we might execute an innocent person, and [/li][li]life in prison is worse than death[/li][/list] are saying that they prefer that the innocent suffer a lifetime of torture to a quick death.

You need either to establish that a sentence of life in prison is less likely to be inflicted on an innocent person, or admit that you prefer that the innocent suffer more, out of squeamishness over possible mistakes.

Keeping in mind that no person executed in the US since the re-instatement of the DP in the 70s has ever been found to be factually innocent after the fact, I would say the likelihood of an unjust sentence of life is more likely to impose suffering on the innocent.

And, if gobear’s notion that no one who wants to impose suffering should be allowed to decide on death or life in prison, then those who maintain that life in prison is worse should also be disqualified from considering it.

There is no chance that the death penalty can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

There is no chance that life in prison without parole can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

There is no chance that the parole system can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

There is no chance that a sentence of 25 years can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

There is no chance that a $50 fine and a stern talking to can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

Regards,
Shodan

[Grey]

Well obviously she would be calling for the execution of the murderers. :rolleyes:

In reply to Briker’s post.

[Ludovic]

Annie X-mas wrote:

People who say “put him in prison and throw away the key” should talk to someone whose relative was murdered by a “lifer” who escaped prison or was murdered in prison.

I highly doubt that more people on the outside have been murdered by escaped convicts than people who have been murdered by the state due to false convictions. And to solve the other problems, we can send those who normally would have been sentenced to death to life in prison without parole in a supermax.

Doing this may nor may not be more expensive than our current appeals-laden process of putting someone to death. But it would be less expensive than ensuring that all those on death row are truely guilty, something which we can’t even do now despite spending more on a death row inmate than on a lifer!

[Kalhoun]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cp.htm

These Dept. of Justice figures show who is getting excuted, by year. It’s mostly white guys (very few women), and mostly repeat offenders.

However, I’m against the death penalty. It doesn’t appear to be a deterrent, they make too many mistakes, and a lot of folks seem to like the idea of taking a life waaaaay toofuckinmuch.

[carrot]

@Shodan

Those who claim to oppose the death penalty because [list=a]
[li]we might execute an innocent person, and [/li][li]life in prison is worse than death[/li][/list] are saying that they prefer that the innocent suffer a lifetime of torture to a quick death.

Well, you’re right about one thing: this makes no sense.

Tell you what: I’ll get on board with you when you volunteer to be the innocent person executed for a crime they didn’t commit. What, you don’t have the courage of your convictions?

You need either to establish that a sentence of life in prison is less likely to be inflicted on an innocent person, or admit that you prefer that the innocent suffer more, out of squeamishness over possible mistakes.

Wow, that’s quite good. I’ve never seen such a good example of the fallacy of the excluded middle.

Keeping in mind that no person executed in the US since the re-instatement of the DP in the 70s has ever been found to be factually innocent after the fact, I would say the likelihood of an unjust sentence of life is more likely to impose suffering on the innocent.

Keeping in mind that no one on the side of the government wants to revisit those cases for fear of wrongful death suits.

@Shodan

Some strawman bullshit.

All of those have one very important characteristic: they can be overturned after they have been applied, if there is exculpatory evidence. Until you start reanimating people, your strawman is without merit.

[Shirley_Ujest]

It’ll cost three or four times more to convict him than slapping him in a cell for the rest of his life.

My thoughts exactly. My inner accountant/cheeseparing tightwad likes this one.

Although, nothing beats a good flogging followed by a hanging. Sorry, I was channelling Filch.

[Zebra]

Well,

My father was murdered so I don’t have to imagine what her parnets are going through. So let me tell you that I am against the death penalty 100%.

No, I wouldn’t even want it for the man who killed my father. In the first few weeks after it happened I would have but when I calmed down and my rational mind re-took control of my thoughts I wouldn’t do it.
Now if you want to come here and say I’m a bad son or I don’t love my father then bring it the fuck on you mutherfuckin fuck.
Why am I against the death penalty?
Because I want to move out of the fucking middle ages that’s why! Everytime there is some heinous crime like this child or Lacy Peterson people start running around like they are the red fucking queen saying off with his head! Public executions! Hello! The red queen was insane! Well count me out. You have the same bloodlust as a the criminal in my book.

I want to be a better person than the criminal.

I want to live in a better world tomorrow than the one I lived in yesterday.

Our prison system needs a top to bottom reform. The death penalty is one small part of what needs to be changed.

[Metacom]

@Shodan

This makes no sense whatever.

Those who claim to oppose the death penalty because [list=a]
[li]we might execute an innocent person, and [/li][li]life in prison is worse than death[/li][/list] are saying that they prefer that the innocent suffer a lifetime of torture to a quick death.

You need either to establish that a sentence of life in prison is less likely to be inflicted on an innocent person, or admit that you prefer that the innocent suffer more, out of squeamishness over possible mistakes.

I’m in the odd position of agreeing with Shodan: I think there is a contradiction in holding those two positions. People may say that a life sentence is preferable because it can be reversed, but if prison is the hell it supposedly is, then the damage it does can’t be undone, and, if it’s truly worse then death, then some finite period of time in prison has to equal the harshness of a death sentence. In other words, even if you get out of a life sentence because evidence of your innocence is uncovered, you’ve still paid a price greater then death (if you agree with the two bullets in Shodan’s list).

For the record, though, I think the second part of Shodan’s post–where he erects a field of strawmen on a slippery slope–was very lame.

[Who_me_1]

For the record I’m pro-death penalty… and I think the OP is an idiot. For my reasons why, see gobear’s post.

Also, the OP says that this guy should have been executed long ago, thus saving this girl’s life. While saving Carlie Brucia’s life is a laudable thing… do we execute people for the previous crimes that he’s been arrested for?

From CNN

A few months before, Smith was convicted of carrying a concealed weapon – a knife, according to his arrest record from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

Smith has faced numerous drug charges. In 2001, he was convicted of heroin possession, possession of controlled substances and attempting to obtain controlled substances by fraudulent means. He served a little more than a year in prison. He was on probation when he was arrested Tuesday.

I won’t say that he was an innocent angel, but I believe that’s hardly Capital Offense material…

[Fear_Itself]

@Shodan

There is no chance that life in prison without parole can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

This error can be reversed; the death penalty, applied in error, cannot.

There is no chance that the parole system can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

This error can be reversed; the death penalty, applied in error, cannot.

There is no chance that a sentence of 25 years can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

This error can be reversed; the death penalty, applied in error, cannot.

There is no chance that a $50 fine and a stern talking to can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

This error can be reversed; the death penalty, applied in error, cannot.

A policy that allows for the possibility of the state-sponsored murder of an innocent person is the most abhorrent thing the state can do in my name. I will willingly endure any of the possible negative outcomes attendant to life in prison without parole, to prevent state sponsored murder of innocent people.

[Kinthalis]

@Shodan

There is no chance that a $50 fine and a stern talking to can ever be applied without error, therefore there is no excuse for ever using it.

Regards,
Shodan

Look, if you can’t differentiate between death and a $50 fine, then I think this discussion may be a little over your head.

[carrot]

@Kinthalis

Look, if you can’t differentiate between death and a $50 fine, then I think this discussion may be a little over your head.

Oh, it wasn’t just a $50 fine, it was a $50 fine AND a stern talking-to.

[sub]By the way, Kinthalis, that was brilliant.[/sub]

[Knowed_Out]

For those who prefer life sentencing in favor of the death penalty because of the possiblity of a faulty conviction, isn’t there an equal likelihood in both cases? Plus, there’s so many appeals in death penalty cases, those convicted spend at last 10 years on death row. Isn’t that enough time to determine the veracity of the evidence?

What’s frightening is that it costs more to execute somebody than to send to prison for life because of all the freakin’ attorneys fees! The death penalty is inefficient for that one reason alone!

Prison yard justice is ultimately cheaper. Just ask Dahmer.

[gobear]

And, if gobear’s notion that no one who wants to impose suffering should be allowed to decide on death or life in prison, then those who maintain that life in prison is worse should also be disqualified from considering it.

Shodan, please cease making up statements and attributing them to me. I said no such thing. Obviously, the death penalty or life in prison involve some suffering. What I oppose is the unholy glee some of you take in this.

There is a difference between condign punsishment for a monstrous crime and torturing a criminal because the peanut gallery wants to see blood. Execration and loathing of his crime are understandable, but the almost pornographic desires for outlandish torment expressed here are sickening.

In addition, pleas that we should think about his parents are useless. The legal process does not address vengeance, but punishment, and people blinded by grief are not capable of deciding the appropriate penalty for this crime–that is why we have outlawed private revenge and leave punishment to the law. Cases are decided by the courts, not by lynch mobs–some of you seem not to know this.

[SnoopyFan]

I’m with you on this one, duffer.

With any luck this piece of shit won’t live to see his trial. Even criminals have morals and I doubt they’ll take kindly to a child murderer.

I’d like to see the judges who are lenient with these repeat-offender assholes get nailed for letting bastards like this guy out, only to go hurt someone else. Maybe if judges were scared of getting in trouble, they wouldn’t be as easy on them.

[Fear_Itself]

And while I’m at it:

@duffer

This Smith fuskshit should have died long ago. Maybe this 11 y/o girl would still be alive today?

Pre-emptive sentencing? I find you and your kind much more frightening than Joseph P. Smith. This twisted, logic-of-fear approach to public safety is a direct result of the Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive war. Let’s just skip trials altogether, and let all right-thinking citizens who can carry a gun kill whomever they think is a threat.

You are the shitstain on the underpants of the SDMB.

[SnoopyFan]

The only shitstains I see around here are people who think justice is taking this guy, who did God knows what to that little girl, and feeding, clothing and sheltering him for the rest of his life.

[Who_me_1]

@SnoopyFan

I’m with you on this one, duffer.

With any luck this piece of shit won’t live to see his trial. Even criminals have morals and I doubt they’ll take kindly to a child murderer.

I’d like to see the judges who are lenient with these repeat-offender assholes get nailed for letting bastards like this guy out, only to go hurt someone else. Maybe if judges were scared of getting in trouble, they wouldn’t be as easy on them.

It’s good to see the values of liberty and justice are so alive and well in the United States. Glorying in the bloodlust of revenge is so refreshing…

Repeat offender… lack of reading comprehension.
Convict him, then execute him, is usually the way it would go.