Gluteus, just going by your sig. Can I ask how long you’ve been in Japan? And for that matter, how many in this thread don’t live in the States? Threads like this, I’ve found, are deluged from non US citizens.
If I may weed some out. Yes, we know most Dopers outside the US are anti DP. We get that. And, yes, we respect it. But we’re talking about US law. We aren’t on these boards telling you how to run the law in your country. When it comes to US crimes and DP (as in this thread) please let US Dopers get into the argument.
This seems incredibly arrogant, but there are some debates that are started between Dopers that should just stay within the US borders. What I mean is sometimes something happens in the US that just doesn’t translate to other countries by way of law. It would be the same as me sitting in North Dakota and chiming in on the latest big-time case in Melborne, Perth, Liverpool, or Dublin. Would you really put much stock in what I had to say on any of these?
This thread was begun about a , I’m trying to be civil, “man” whom was caught on video using a gun to abduct an 11 year old (same age as my neice.) The same one you have seen me mention in GQ about geography.
Her body was found 2 days ago, and he still says he had nothing to do with it, and the video shows him taking her!!!
Google Dru Sjodin, search my threads on her, I just can’t see how people can defend this this.
This was the purpose of my OP.
Sorry if this isn’t coming across as I meant it, and my OP may have been off base, but I thought most would see where I was coming from
This is so frustrating. I never said they should be beaten, starved, blinded, etc. I said they should not be given pleasures they have deprived innocent people of.
Btw, “cruel and unusual punishment” is not definite. It fluctuates with the whims the Supreme Court.
Well, there is a very large body of case law which does spell out what does constitute “cruel and unusual” at both the state and federal levels. And we’re obliged to follow that until/unless we get decisions handed down which specifically say those things listed are no longer “cruel and unusual”. So mainly the list just gets bigger.
So if someone started a thread on the criminal justice system of a non-US country, the American dopers would keep their mouths shut? Bullshit…
I completely disagree. I find the opinions of people who aren’t Americans add a very interesting perspective to these kinds of discussions, and I welcome it.
No one is defending either perpetrator. People are calling for compassion. I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. Hell, this time, I’ll say it using small words, because you don’t seem to have grasped the distinction yet despite this being said multiple times: Having compassion for another human being is not the same thing as defending their actions.
There isn’t a rolleyes big enough in the world. I’m not even going to try and explain the obvious which is PEOPLE AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY DO NOT REJOICE IN MURDER. I mean, I can’t believe I just typed that.
I know we’re not in Great Debates or anything, but at this point I have to throw a penalty flag and call you the loser.
:rolleyes:
Well, in that case, I implore all to support Charles Manson’s parole!
Come on, people! Let’s be compassionate! Why should Chuck be held in prison when all his murders were commited out of love?
HE SAID IT WAS DONE OUT OF LOVE!!!
Hell, he said the impetus was the White Album by The Beatles. Can’t get much more loving than the Beatles. Manson said it was out of the love he felt from the White Album.
I’m sure, given his reasoning, he only meant good in his crimes.
If what you said was interesting and relevant, of course I’d put stock in it, no matter where you were from. If by weeding out, you hope to get a larger proportion of yes-men in here, I’d think that might work. Maybe not on this board, but certainly, a majority of U.S. citizens do support the death penalty. However, if all you want to do is read a circle-jerk of agreeing opinions, you may be better off finding a different board.
I’ve said this before, in almost exactly these words. One of the finest things about this board is the large contingent of non-U.S. posters. The observations and insights of those outside looking in are invaluable to me.
As I’ve stated before on these boards, I’ve been here in Japan for a little over twelve years… so what? I’m still a citizen of the United States, thus, my sig… and the discussion at hand is a human one, not merely a legal one. In addition, since the death penalty in the United States of America is a state, not a federal issue, your claim that we are talking about US law is incorrect. Japan has the death penalty, in case you’re interested… it’s currently death by hanging.
Excited?
So, to sum up, the United States is my country,too, fuck you very much.
The Internet is international, you jerk. If you want to keep it all private and just for ‘Americans’, then limit yourself to your local talk radio program, or your local bar.
I said that based on your sig. You’re an American, fine. After 12 years of not living here, you can understand my suspicion? If not, you’re the jerk. Sometimes, you can set yourself up for being assumed as a different nationality. Even holding dual citizenship, it doesn’t mean you are mainstream American. This is fine with me, just don’t assume after 12 years of living abroad you know what the “feel” is here, and tell me I’m the jerk.
Listen carefully. The Internet is international. I don’t know what you were trying to parse, but it didn’t work. I can only control how fast I type, not how slow you can read. I never said my posts were for Americans only. (I’ll pause while you re-read that). I was trying to point out that the OP was about American law. It was something that was to elicit American thoughts of children being abducted and killed, and the perps’ appropriate punishment.
Sorry if this was too advanced for you. I’ve noticed that Dopers from numerous countries saw this as a rant and for the most part accepted the American justice position…
I’ll try to conform to your mind-set. God forbid I have have an opinion.
As I said originally, all pleasures! No t.v., no radio, no newpapers, no art supplies…nothin’! You enforce it be tossing 'em into a cell and not giving them these things! No decision needed…life in prison for premeditated murder=this punishment!
You’re entitled to your (cough) opinion, but you are the jerk, jerk.
You assume that since I live in another country, I’m at least as out of touch as you? That’s only one of your mistaken assumptions.
I don’t understand your suspicion. Are you suspicious of all Americans who live overseas? I really don’t see how, when I have declared in each and every one of my posts that I am a citizen of the USA, that anyone with half a brain could assume that I have some other nationality.
I do not hold dual citizenship. For one thing, Japanese law does not allow it. For another, why on Earth would anyone want to pay income taxes to two countries, let alone one?
Just who in the hell do you think you are to tell me what brand of American I am, you fucking fascist? I am in daily contact with my family (all born and bred Americans) and the American media (via the Internet), and I am all too aware of what the “feel” is, since I have to explain it daily to Japanese people, who are also quite aware of what the “feel” is in America, since it affects them, too.
So, fuck you, you fucking jerk. I was an American before you were, and I still am. I’m also entitled to an opinion on issues that occur in America, as well as other places.
I’m also entitled to vote in elections that take place in America, via absentee ballot. If that upsets your sense of patriotism, well, once again, fuck you.
I am saying exactly what I said. No one executed in the US after the reinstatement of the DP in the 70s have ever been found to be factually innocent after being executed.
I have no idea how I would cite this. They were all convicted (obviously) and their sentences all were upheld on appeal (again, obviously), so their guilt was established beyond a reasonable doubt. Appeal and review of their verdict over a period of years or decades never brought up any credible evidence that the verdict was wrong.
I believe this is the process they are trying with Coleman. As I mentioned, he was convicted, there were years of appeals, then they claimed DNA testing would clear him, it established further evidence of his guilt, and he was executed.
Now they are claiming that more DNA evidence will be proof of his innocence. And as I also said, I believe they are hoping to confuse the difference between “the tests didn’t show he was guilty” with “the tests didn’t work after all these years”.
Shodan, I can give you a contrapositive cite which suggests that perhaps as many as twenty-five people have been wrongfully executed:
But that’s not why I’m posting here. I’m here to say that our pal duffer has impressed me as the most arrogant, ignorant fool I’ve had the displeasure of reading here at the SDMB lately.
Congratulations, you asshole. I’m gonna keep watching you, and when you fuck up, I’m gonna tattle on you like a little bitch girl on the school playground.
I already know what you are. All you have to do is prove it so that we can be rid of you. Sooner rather than later, you dick.
Shodan: So do you believe that the system in death penalty cases is pretty much perfect, that NO innocent person will EVER be executed? Or are you willing to take the (perhaps near-zero, in your opinion?) chance of the rare erroneous execution as the price we have to pay for the benefits the death penalty gives society?
And how do you think countries without the death penalty get along without it? Are we unique in our criminal environment (which some people do claim)? Why is it that we’re practically the only country that’s NOT seen worldwide as some sort of fascist/communist dictatorship to still have it? Is there any connection, or is this just a coincidence?
If it were strictly about retribution and vengeance, then the death penalty would definitely be up for all this debate. But I submit that the death penalty isn’t about punishment. It’s about the preciousness of life. It’s a statement that we make saying, “Life is precious. If you go about viciously denying people their life, yours will also be denied. It’s not to make you suffer, that’s why we let you have a nice deep sleep as you go out, instead of screaming while someone rapes and strangles you. It’s not to teach you a lesson. It’s to teach everyone else a lesson.”
For those who think that life in prison is a much worse punishment, I submit most politely that you are full of horse-hockey. People hang onto life, hell though it may be. Murderers on death row keep looking for a pardon because suddenly, they understand that life is precious, worth fighting for…even though they denied their victims that luxury. They really don’t want to die for their crimes. They have a complete social system, world view, and life they deem worth living. Otherwise, plug a drip-needle in their veins, and let them turn the drip on for themselves, if life in prison is such an awful thing. The cowards want to live.
That is why they must die.
I don’t want innocents to die, but that happens every day for lesser causes than the pursuit of justice. Idiots die imitating stunts they see on “JackAss” or kill others because an almighty drink was more important than driving safely. People die because a pharmacist prescribes the wrong medicine. It’s a tragedy because life is precious. We can’t legislate perfection. But we had damn sure better try to get it right, that IS our responsibility to protect our citizens.
It’s not a perfect judicial system. But the message IS important. Life is precious. If you treat that tenet lightly, you will discover its truth for yourself, and we’ll help.
Wow. Just fucking wow. You made my point for me. You really don’t give a shit if the people you execute are guilty or innocent.
Tell me, asshole, are *you willing to be one of those innocent people? Yes or no?
Actually, fuck it, that’s too easy. Would you be willing top let your child or your parent or your spouse be wrongfully executed? Are you seriously asserting that it’s ok to kill a few innocent people along with the guilty?
I only ask because I for one am absolutely sick to death of wading back into the breach to repost the same refutations over and over and over again only for them to go unheeded.
Innocent death is always tragic. When innocent death is officially mandated by the Government and chalked up as an “acceptable loss” in pursuit of some facile, overly simplistic and high handed Utilitarian pursuit of some greater good it becomes not only tragic but stupid and evil. It betrays the same sickeningly callous disregard for human life that we are supposed to be punishing in the first place.
And siven this, surely it stands to reason that enforcing irreversible punishments is a very, very bad idea.
