I never said that deserters are inevitably shot. My point is that, as long as the regulation remains on the books, there is a greater than zero chance it will be enforced. Thus, worrying about it remains a judgement call.
I think we can stipulate that he probably won’t be shot if he deserts. Whoop-dee-doo. What a selling point for the military They should put that in their commercials. 'Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines…we probably won’t shoot you if you desert!" I’m sure enlistment would go through the roof. :rolleyes"
I think we can all agree that there are a lot better reasons to stay out of the military than fear of being shot as a deserter.
Two incidences in 140 years is NOT a judgment call. That is all but an iron-clad guarantee that you will not be shot for desertion. I don’t know why you are arguing otherwise. You will not be shot for desertion.
The post that we’re going off was a masterpiece of disinformation and scaremongering, and I think that it should be corrected, not reinforced.
Yeah, there are lots of good reasons not to join. There are also perfectly valid reasons to join.
No, Airman, an iron-clad guarantee is if the regulation were removed from the books. BTW, lots of guys were shot for desertion during the Civil War, not just one. Slovik was shot to make an example. No less of an all-around decent guy than Ike Eisenhower himself signed off on it. Under the present administration or similar future one, I don’t find it impossible to believe that an example might have to be made once more. Like it or not, the military remains a job where you can be killed for quitting.
Unless he plans on going career in the Marines, an intelligent young man would do well to get high end technical training in the USAF. Sure, the Marines offer some technical training. But there isn’t much call for ‘Og Smash!’ in the civ world (sorry jarheads). The urinals are much cleaner now that they let the ‘Aim High’ slogan die.
And how else could folks get to see North Dakota?
That BS, the odds of being shot for desertion are so low as to statistically approach zero. You are just as likely to be struck by lightning. (Hyperbole)
There are drawbacks to joining the military. There are drawbacks to not joining the military too. A higher percentage of 18-20 years old civilians end up in jail than 18-20 year olds in the military. Does this stat prove anything? No.
The military can be an excellent choice for a kid without direction and gainful employment. A 4-year hitch while evaluating a lifetime hitch can be of far more benefit than working 4 years at a fast food place or retail or any other low skilled job. I have friends that got through their enlistment and used the GI Bill to get there degree. I have friends that have worked a serious of crappy jobs because the only skill they learned in the Navy was how to scrape and paint ships. The Military like everything else can be good or bad.
I would avoid the Army and Marines in favor of the Air Force, Navy or Coast Guard but then I also refuse to shoot someone and had already decided that before I joined. All 5 services can and usually teach a lot of self discipline. I would actually recommend a military hitch for almost anyone not going to college. It is a good life experience.
Jim
My best friend’s son, also from Akron by the way, joined the Air Force last year. He was one of those rude, selfish kids who seemed to be heading for a bitter disolute life.
Amazing change, he’s proud, humble and more mature than I’ve ever thought possible. He’s in MP training and hoping to be a police officer after his hitch is up.
On a side note, going to church was always a big fight with him, now he’s the chaplain’s assistant and leading bible studies.
I wish I had not listened to my mother and joined the service when I was a young man.
Your son sounds like he is floundering a bit–not sure what to do with his life and there is almost too much choice. He also sounds like he might be somewhat idealistic (typical at that age).
Can he talk to a career counselor at the local HS/community college? I know he graduated, but that might be a resource to explore. Does he have a favorite teacher from HS that he could talk to about future education and jobs?
If this were my son(and I’m the mom, so it’s a bit different than father to son), I would start asking him questions. Not what do you want to do with your life type questions–not many 19 year olds know the answer to that. But questions like, “do you see yourself married in a few years?” “Do you think you’ll have kids?”, “Remember how much you loved _______(fill in blank with favored activity or subject from school), did you ever think of exploring that more?”(if his favorite activity was watching TV, you gotta problem!).
I’m not coming up with the great questions (I don’t have kids this age yet), but this should be a series of talks with you and his Mom and some other adult in his life. He needs to understand the gravity of his choice and the permanence of it–choosing the military can change his life, for good or bad. But both are permanent. Is that a chance he wants to take? To lose a limb? Have PTSD? I am dwelling on the “downside” because the downside it so grave.
the armed services could well be the making of him–but so could a good job. By that I mean a good fit for his skills and personality. Frankly, for me, the risk is too high. I pity those young kids over in Iraq and the treatment of vets in this country is shameful.
have you told him that you don’t want him to go? Is he trying to live up to some unspoken expectation (not from you, but from some ideal that he thinks he needs to meet)? He may find all this hard to articulate, but better to hash it out now than for him to sign on and deeply regret it.
And if he insists on joining–get everything in writing. In fact, hadn’t you better go with him, to guarantee that it does get in writing? 19 is easily put off by authority.
Statistically, the Marines forces in Iraq seem to have a more dangerous time of it than others, at least as of last August:
530 fatalities out of 23,000 servicemembers is about a 2-3% fatality rate. Non-fatal casualty rates are approximately seven or eight times as high for all troops in Iraq, but I don’t know how that breaks down by branch.
Personally, I can’t see viewing the military strictly in light of personal career opportunities and/or character development. Ultimately, it’s about fighting for your country, right? If you’re not committed to that cause, both in the abstract and in the specific context of the current wars, I don’t see how you could find military service truly satisfying.
Just what I was thinking. He might have to take an extra portion of proselytizing if he goes into the AF, since there seem to be a lot of officers who take the “reach out and touch the face of God”(…or whatever the poem says) stuff seriously. Otherwise, it’s the most luxurious option for military service. I’m in Colorado Springs, near the Academy and Air Force Academy Prep (not to be confused with Air Academy High which is just a regular public high school). There are, of course, enlisted personnel in the AF, but there is also this intermediate step at the prep school for the not-quite-ready for the cadet experience potential future officer.
The Air Force training seems to focus a lot on potential POW situations, rather than non-airborne combat situations. If the son in question has the ability to curl up in a big cardboard box and take a nap, rather than freaking out about the isolation, he just might be Air Force material. If, on the other hand, he’s more tempted by the idea of crawling in the southern mud with real or imagined water moccasins slithering into his pants, he’s more probably suited to the Marines.
I have close relatives – all officers – currently in or retired from Air Force, Navy, and Army. I get the strong impression that Air Force work is more similar to civilian work – indoor, technical, regular hours, a bit more interactive give and take --though the command structure is still not to be taken lightly, a little space for innovation, etc. There is also a very tightly-knit placement community/network to make the post-AF placement in civilian life an easy landing.
Which does not in fact mean that the United States Armed Services will shoot people for desertion (they won’t) so your assertion they would is a lie. Leaving aside the weird “well they might make another example of someone” talk, the fact is that the U.S. government doesn’t even put that much effort into prosecuting deserters as you would think.
That reminds me - is your son white? If so, he has a lower chance of being put on the front lines.
Is this an honest exchange or are we going to resort to lies and propaganda throughout? Let me know so I can stop wasting my time if it’s the latter.
Tell the kid to sign on with the USCG. it is good duty, it is mostly non-combat, and you get to learn valuable skills. Plus-you are helping fellow americans
It’s honest, at least on my part, but I was mistaken. Apparently I am misremembering some news reports from a few years ago that Colin Powell danced around regarding minorities in the military. The best I can find is that Hispanics disproportinately represent casualties in Iraq, solely because they are disproportinately represented in the Marine Corps.
I retract my statement.
I have a few friends that joined the service. My two middle brothers were both in the Army, and one of them is now California Army National Guard.
1- Your son joins (assume Marines). He is shipped off to Basic, shaved, yelled at, and worked very very hard. There appears to be a good chance of some physical abuse, but nothing that will kill him, or even injure him to the point where he can’t still stand on deck and do his training. That would defeat the whole purpose.
2- Your son finishes basic (probably in the best shape of his life). He goes off to MOS training. There, he is trained in an MOS… maybe the one he chose, maybe another one.
3- Your son finished MOS training (of one sort or another), and then is shipped out. Maybe overseas, maybe to The Sand, maybe to another state in the US. Given the number of Marines, statistically he has more chance of NOT going to the Sand, but it is possible. A lot of that depends on MOS.
The odds are good that he will get some discipline, and if he’s smart with his money, will have funds for a car and other sundry necessities when he’s finally mustered out. If he can avoid the drinking and drug problems that exist within the services, he should do just fine.
Downside:
-Some folks don’t tranistion from the military world back into Civilian life that well.
-He may get send to the Sand. It is possible. While there, people may attempt to kill him. Again, statistically, they will fail, but it’s still possible.
-There is a drug and alcohol problem in the Services.
-He may not make it through Basic. This would bounce him out.
There may be more downsides, but it’s hard to get them without getting rhetoric, either way.
And of course, I am NOT A MARINE or soldier, so YMMV.
I’m reading Spare Parts right now, the experiences of a Marine Reservist who graduated from MOS school the day Iraq invaded Kuwait
Don’t you mean he better not be white because they are dying in a higher percentage then there counterparts?
And below are some nice charts showing death by race in the War In Iraq.
Holy cow. Are you just making shit up now? If so, sam, your son should join the Marines because they give each jarhead a diamond mine at retirement. Also, they ship in supermodels for sex parties every weekend.
Nobody becomes a Marine to play a tuba. There are lots of civilian bands. Moreover, the Marines’ credo is “Every Marine a Rifleman.” While only a small percentage of Marines actually serve in rifle companies, they’re all prepared with the understanding that they’re soldiers first, and their specific day-to-day job is second.
sam, your son needs to know that the Marines see themselves as the most locked on (i.e., “gung ho”) service branch. I think that’s one of their strongest selling points, but not everyone would agree with me. If he’s looking for job training, he can get that in any branch. But if he’s looking for an experience that will change him personally, the Marines might be a good choice. [Note – This is my opinion. I’ve got family in the AF and Navy and friends in every branch, but I’ve never served myself.]
Are you posting before you finish reading the thread? Try again, paying especial attention to post #56.