Okay, teeming millions, please help me out here. I am a, uh,newbie, and my brother (who has built over 400 computers, from scratch) is telling me something i (pretty much) think is crazy, but you tell me: Should the room a computer is in always be below 70 degrees F? Now, he built me a computer, said it was a really good one(!). It worked fine for a week, and then I attempted to attach, plug in, whatever, a headset w/mic. Things get screwy from here. The puter would freeze up, I’d go offline, get ‘illegal op’ and ‘internal error’ messages, etc. He came over and told me I was burning up the puter by keeping my room at 75F. Now, has anyone heard of this? This is my first post, hope you don’t mind the length. Comments, please?
As a semi-retired tech, I can tell you that unless your computer is in operation in a sustained environment of 95º or more for a good deal of time your computer is fine.
In the summer time I can run my computers in my house at 86º for a good deal of the day with no trouble. One of my computers is 3 1/2 years old and except for a power supply problem it still runs fine. It may shorten the life of my machines but I still have one running after 3 1/2 years.
Sounds to me like you have having problems with your operating system.
BTW, most current BIOS (ask your brother – it’s the nervous system of your machine) have temperature alarms and will sound off if the machine is running at too high a temp.
Thank you techchick. Now I’ll have to find out how to check or fix my operating system. I’m a newbie, remember. This is my first computer. Could it be a virus, maybe? Where do I go from here, what do I do? I know I need more memory, only got 24ram.
In order to help you further, we really need to know more about your computer.
What operating system (Windows and version?)
Processor, RAM (which 24 doesn’t sound right), etc.
Programs you are running when you get the errors etc.
If you are running under 64MB RAM I can pretty much tell you that any new programs will slow your system down considerably.
If you have a smaller hard drive, this will also be a hinderance to Windows (I am pretty sure if you are getting illegal operations that’s what you are using) and it will not take kindly to other programs you are using as well…
So post your specs, the exact problem as you see it and I am sure myself or one that is even more knowledgable than I will be along to help you further.
The temperature thing is an old situation dealing with mainly main frame systems. It’s not ideal to have high temps for anything electronic but they are built for more extreme temps these days. My 1997 machine is a testament to that.
In addition to what Techchick asked, in our OP, you said:
when you added the headset/mic, are we just talking about plugging it into an existing and available port on the back/front of your computer, or did you also install / update software so your computer recognized the headset was there?
-Doug
I’ll give you what I can. When the computer first boots up, a small window with ‘Windows 5.5’ comes up. I have a Pentium P54C. I have 24.omb RAM. I know nothing about the harddrive, will have to get that from my brother. I had an existing port in back for the mic and bro said just plug it in, no installing anything else. I can hear sounds over the headphones, just computer game sounds, no talking. When I first plugged it in, I tried to talk to my bro on AIM clicking the talk button. Things froze almost immediately. He said I might need a new sound or speech card. This was after visiting my home and nearly passing out from the heat (75*!). What else do I need to find out for you?
Oh, yes. The ‘illegal op’ etc. seem to pop up ???
I’ll keep note of that and get back w/you on that. Seems like maybe when I shut some windows?
One more thing. I can’t seem to shut the computer down. When I go to Sart, Shut Down the computer will display the ‘Please wait while your computer shuts down’ message but never gets to the ‘it is now safe …’ message. I suppose this is just another symptom.
Seems like your brother forgot how to put fans in computers.
My PC computer can support about 4 fans. Believe me, the room can be much hotter than 75.
Of course, you could check your computer operations manual it states the operating temperature for zee computer.
Not to sound rude, but tell your brother that is he is missing a few screws. Computers operate fine at normal temperature, and at room temperatures up to about the middle 90’s. Fatal Exceptions and lock ups can be caused by heat issues, but they are very rarely related to the room temp. Most likely, you’re internal cooling (CPU) fan is malfunctioning or not working at all. To determine if it is Hardware or Software related, take the machine into BIOS and see if it locks up there. If it does, then check your CPU fan. If it doesn’t, then you’ve got problems with Windows. Attempt to run a factory restore and see if that clears it up.
PLEASE excuse me for not knowing much, but how do I get into BIOS? Iwent to Start/Find Files (named bios) and got the following: Vnetbios.vxd 27KB virtual device driver
Netbios.dll ?KB App. Extension
Xbios.ovl ?KB OVL file
I clicked on those and promptly got lost about what to do.
I went to ‘my computer’ and ‘systems’ etc. and clicked on ‘properties’ etc. Anyway, got ‘all systems working properly’ and ‘no conflict’ and such.
Anyway, again, at Systems Properties PCI bus Properties my setting is on ‘use hardware’ and the other option is ‘use BIOS’.
I don’t quite got the hang of this here MB, but I’m gonna stay here(?) for awhile to see if anyone responds soon.
I thought I would have to wait (days!) for a response. Sorry if I seem gone.
dobbinaire, if you are a “newbie”, you really shouldn’t be messing around with your BIOS settings. You could render your system unbootable if you’re not careful. Your brother should be able to tell you, since it varies by bios - sometimes it will tell you during boot-up (Del key, Alt-Esc, etc.)
Heat problems will cause computer lockups, but it’s not related to the ambient air temperature of a normal room. As has been mentioned here, temps up to the 90s are ok. You might ask your brother if he used thermal grease when mounting the cooling fan/heat sink assembly to the processor. If not, then he needs to put some on.
Thermal grease is a must, since microscopic air pockets will impede heat transfer between the processor and the heat sink. The grease fills these voids in. If a processor overheats, you’ll get quirky operating problems, usually followed by complete lockup as the cpu shuts itself down. After about 20-30 mins or so, it cools enough to allow you to boot up again, and the cycle repeats itself.
He should also have installed an additional cooling fan, such as a PCI slot fan, to assist in cooling the unit.
The “Windows is shutting down” lockup is a bug in Win 98, if that’s what you’re using. You can get the patch at Microsoft’s web site. Hopefully your brother can figure out where to find it, that is, if it’s not too warm in the room. :rolleyes:
Most newer computers have temperature sensors that are capable of monitoring the motherboard temperature as well as the processor temperature. The maximum heat tolerances vary from component, but the rule of thumb I use is that the processor temperature should be 65 C or less, while the motherboard (which corresponds roughly to the temperature in your case) should be 50 C or less.
Notice that these temperatures are much greater than room temperature, so it’s unlikely that a 5 F difference in room temperature will matter much. If it is in fact a cooling problem, I’d have to go with handy in saying that your case needs more ventillation.
Of course, it could be a problem totally unrelated to heat in the first place.
I tend to agree with the above posters…your system obviously needs more ventilation. .44magnum should be about right.
When you’re through, buy a Dell and ignore your brother.
Only Kidding!
btw, thanks to all who have replied.
ok, i sent my brother here to read all of this. he sent back: you have an OLDER CPU with a GLUED ON heat sink that CANNOT TAKE A FAN (his caps). is he trying to turn me into a popsicle or shall i stop being cheap, he sold it to me for $200, and buy a real computer???
he also said, caps again his, IT WILL … i repeat … IT WILL OVERHEAT
what is a glued on heat sink? can i just put a little fan behind this computer? or what???
SomeBody be real with me please!!!
A glued on heat sink is not a fan, but rather a “heat absorber”, for lack of a better word.
A big fan blowing on your computer, or even leaving the case off may help.
Another option, and this may take a little research on your part, would be to hook up an internal case fan. It would all depend on the form factor of your motherboard and such, and you’ve stated that you’re a newbie. Depending on how much you’re willing to invest, I’d say at this point that you have three options:
- Put a little oscillating fan near your computer, take the cover off of the PC, and it should stay cool.
- Take your PC to a local shop and see if they can rig up a cooling fan inside.
- Move north, build an igloo, go ice fishing, and never worry about your PC overheating again.
Older CPUs generated less heat, so manufacturers felt that a heatsink without an attached fan was sufficient. The heatsink attached to the CPU, and is shaped so that it will absorb the heat generated by the CPU and pass that on to the air in the casing. This method of cooling obviously only works if there is some form of air circulation occurring inside the casing; otherwise the inside case temperature will continue to rise until the heatsink can no longer effectively pass heat to the inside air, overheating the CPU.
If CPU overheating truly is the problem (couldn’t say for sure without having the box in front of me to test), lowering the room temperature still will not solve anything, at least, not in isolation. You need some way to circulate out the hot air inside your casing and blow in room temperature air. msc75’s suggestions should suffice, if it is truly a heating issue.
I really question this, BTW, since it worked fine for a week. Assuming that it is an overheating problem and environmental conditions have not changed drastically over the past week, you should have noticed the problem almost immediately. But again, I don’t have your machine sitting in front of me; this is just my WAG.
I would be very surprised if overheating was the issue here. Like Caldazar I have to qualify this as a WAG since the box is not in front of me but:
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With only 24 MB of RAM my guess is this is an older class of CPU. In general, the older the model of CPU the less the need for active cooling. A P-II 400 or earlier need little to no cooling. Current 1+ GHz chips absolutely must have active cooling to function. Especially Athlon CPU’s (Pentium chips do not run as hot as equivalently clocked Athlon chips but both still require active cooling). I read an article where they turned off the heatsink fan on a 1 GHz Athlon CPU and the chip burned out in 7 seconds!
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Ambient room temperature can definitely play a role in how hot your CPU gets. Remember, the CPU needs ‘cool’ air from outside the case to cool off then exhausts the ‘hot’ air back out. I’ve been in corporate server rooms where the air conditioning shut down and the room temp soared to over 110F (lots of servers in a small room). Shortly after that the servers started shutting themselves down to prevent overheating (a safety feature of the servers).
However, there is usually enough head room in the max temperature a CPU can reach that you’d have to be sitting in an uncomfortably hot room before the CPU would fry. If you have such a lousy heatsink setup that your CPU is already running on the edge of overheating such that a change in temperature from 72 to 75 knocks it over the edge then your system has other problems to address. In short, most comfortable room temperatures should be fine to operate your computer in (say 80F or less).
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Plugging in headphones should in no way affect your system unless there is some sort of electrical short in the headphone jack of your soundcard. If your system crashes are truly due to plugging in speakers I’d be surprised (although anything is possible I suppose…there was a story of a car that wouldn’t start if its owners bought chocolate ice cream at the store so who knows [true story]).
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So far I’m not terribly impressed with your computer techy brother who has built over 400 systems. Blaming your system crashes on overheating sounds like the BS we sometimes feed novice computer users to get them off of our backs (“Ummm…atmosphereic ionization due to the de-orbiting of the Mir spacestation is interferring with your PC…it should clear up in a few days”). Also, anyone who builds a PC with only 24MB in this day and age has a screw loose. 24MB was barely adequate for Windows 95 and Office 95 five years ago. Besides, memory is unbelievably cheap nowadays. A quick check on Pricewatch has 64MB of RAM for $15!
Still, it’s possible something is getting lost in the translation from what your brother says to us so I’ll keep an open mind on him for now. Still, I’d start asking him some more specific questions to see what’s up.
Good Luck!
I would take issue with this. Even the under-100 Mhz Pentiums require some kind of cooling. My guess is that his brother took a Pentium (he said it was a P54C, that implies socket-5 or socket-7) pulled from an OEM machine (e.g HP). OEM machines sometimes have case cooling fans that redirect part of the airflow over the CPU’s heatsink, so they don’t require a separate fan for the CPU. Putting one of these CPUs in a case without proper airflow is ill-advised, as overheating problems would most likely occur.
The first thing that occurred to me was that dobbinaire loosened up the sound card when he was connecting the headset. dobbinaire, you may want to ask your brother to ensure that all the cards are properly seated (this actually isn’t difficult to do, but you said you were a newbie, and I wouldn’t want you to mess anything up worse than it already is). BTW, $200 seems a bit high for a used socket-7 machine with 24MB, when you can buy new (complete) Celeron boxes for $300.
Sorry but this just isn’t true. I bought a P-II 400 a few years back from Falcon Northwest and those guys talked me into a heatsink and fan setup because they were (are) very big on proper cooling (even so I had a baby heatsink and wimpy fan on it and never had any problems). I have seen Slot-1 Intel chips with no heatsink at all before. Heat removal was done by case fans alone. (NOTE: I have seen heatsinks on chips slower than a P-II 400 but the lower you go the more rare they got).
Get down to P-75 and P-90 CPU’s and very few, if any, came with heatsinks on them. Again, case fans were enough and often only a power supply fan did all of the work.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m a big fan of cooling and think it is an issue often overlooked. IIRC a 1.2 GHz Athlon chip needs to dump about 60 watts of heat (think of grabbing a 60 watt light bulb that’s been burning for awhile). However, part of the reason cooling is often overlooked today is because it just wasn’t much of an issue till recently (heatsinks becoming required equipment with 400-500 Mhz chips and especially with 1+ GHz chips).
I agree completely on the $200 being too much to pay if dobbinaire has the PC we think he/she has.
Well, I did pay $200 and I probably do have the computer you think I (she) have. Actually, $120 was for the monitor, keyboard, and cpu tower, the extra $80 was for an 8GB harddrive (good deal! it costs twice that much new!) used about a year or so.
I read a posted thread about which was better, more RAM or bigger harddrive. I definitely shall get much more RAM. For what I do, mainly surf and email, I suppose 8GB should be enough (?).
Bro did mention something about my speech card, may be bad, I’ll have him check it to see if it’s loose. Of course, what with my limited knowledge and what I’ve been searching and reading about, 24RAM may just be pushing the edge on my capacity, ability to use the mic and so forth. Since I removed the mic and am just using the speakers, I am having a lot less problems. Now I just sometimes get error messages whenever I close a window. Stick with me please, I’m learning! Also, without the mic I rarely freeze up, now only when I am playing a game, open up another window, and then get an IM. Again, that may be my low RAM.
I just LOVE this message board! I’m a newbie, I’m gushing. Thanks to all.
One more thing: I can figure out most of the acronyms, but what does WAG stand for? I ain’t, I just ain’t figured that one out yet.