Voting should be mandatory. Then it would be a reflection of the populace. How could that be wrong? Why should a few determine policies that affect everybody.
Honestly, I think i’d argue against you on that one. But even accepting that for argument, it presumes a sliding scale of ignorance in which more ignorance means a more negative outcome, and really i’d again disagree that ignorance only has one axis in that way. I suppose you could also believe more in drawing a line, in which case if you’re six levels too ignorant then you’re not really much different from someone two levels too ignorant, but that’s making a qualitative argument a bit too quantitative for my liking.
Either way, they don’t inherently run counter to one another. Reading your OP, I was under the impression that you weren’t simply arguing against a specific example of these ideas, rather that you were using examples of those ideas to argue against the point in general. Your actual questions, at least, don’t include the specifics of the new voters in question being more or less ignorant. You could equally point out that some proposed barriers to voting being unfair or biased do not mean that the whole notion is inherently flawed (Oddly enough, I wouldn’t have characterised “believe in some barriers to voting” as being a particularly American-style conservative opinion. Possibly it’s my foreign-ness).
Statistics did. That is not as rich a vein in which to register voters. They were a success if they registered a lot. They had nothing to gain, especially if they got paid by the registration.
My intuition tells me that no political organization in the nation wants more people to vote. They want more of their people to vote, or less of the other’s. I think the liberal contingent is likely taking the offensive, and conservatives the defensive. It’s much easier (I think) to register liberals, as they must be packed in cities and suburbs, and technologically connected. It’s in the best interest for the repubs to adopt the defensive, because they’re at a registration disadvantage.
What’s the difference between not voting and voting for a totally random candidate? Like, we could surely increase turnout if we forced infants/people who live in caves to vote. Ignorant people might make slightly random choices, with a chance that they are bad ones.
Is the risk for bad policy worse or better than a system where informed people have more of a say? The risk of bad policy is still totally random, since we don’t know what the ignorant would have preferred if they were informed.
Anyway, please don’t compel me to vote. Is the nation really so desperate for my vote for Mickey Mouse that they should fine/imprison me to get it?
Is this seriously a conservative position? And are you proud of that position?
Did you really post that statement in what is supposed to be yet another liberal hypocrisy thread?
I have to take a moment to commend friend Bricker for his investigatory prowess. Finding out stuff. Very impressive. I have given a quick search of a few lefty sites I happen to occasionally peruse. And not one mention of this furious hurricane of debate raging through the left wing.
This can only be the result of the iron-clad hierarchical command structure of the left. The word came down from Commissar Soros, and minions of the hive mind erased almost all traces of this storm of controversy. Ruthless discipline and organization being, as you all know, the very essence of modern American leftists.
I’m a libertarian, but I absolutely think some barriers to voting are acceptable, or even desirable. Citizenship, mental capacity, and age, for starters; but I’d have no problem if we instituted a civic literacy test.
While reading the OP, this is exactly what my thoughts were. The only thing I would add is that I think the OP has exagerated the idea that “there has been a recurring theme that the voters are not savvy enough to make intelligent decisions”. People make the decisions that they do. I think the OP and I are in agreement that people should be allowed to make stupid decisions in a democracy.
I’ve actually seen Freeptards screaming for property qualifications.
Oh good, is this where citizenship is based on that reinterpretation of the 14th amendment, that excludes people born in Hawaii to a father from Kenya?
I haven’t the slightest doubt, but I gather that the subtle slander being offered here is that the left is elitist. Problem with posters, you can’t see their faces to determine whether or not they are smirking.
Usually accompanied by the phrase, “skin in the game.” I’d like to know where that originated.
Probably. Thing is, our system of government has a certain amount of elitism built into it. Mama Hamilton didn’t raise no fool!
Hate that snotty little bitch, Al Hamilton. Wish it had been Tom Paine who shot him.
:dubious:
Um, no. Paranoid much?
You’re a well educated man in the law, surely you know exactly why this is a bad idea. Who do you trust to educate a voter without the risk of it being biased towards one party? I certainly wouldn’t trust any organization that’s paid for or supported by one of the two major parties.
There is some partisan self serving rationalization as Bricker and Sam Stone mention. There’s another issue though.
The tension comes from years of brainwashing and propaganda aimed at middle to upper class liberals (the kind of people who do these vote registering drives) about every citizen’s duty to vote. It’s the civic religion of obligations and responsibilities to the state, no less pernicious than any other religion. The programming is strong and difficult to break, even while contrary evidence assaults them from all sides.
You can see it in this thread, too. The idea that too many uniformed voters might represent a danger to the system, somehow. The two received, pre-approved candidates who agree on many issues – one of them may cause a castrophe! There are large amounts of informed people voting for the catastrophic candidate, but they know what they’re doing so it’s OK. But those uninformed voters, watch out.
Sure. Voter IDs, for example, are a barrier to voting, but their vakue outweighs the deleterious effects of the barrier they raise.
The only thing that provides any relief from the constant pain in the neck over the misuse of the word “hypocrisy” is the apparent willingness to misuse it directed at the left.
I said: “…from vocal SDMB participants…”
An example thread with the sentiment: Fuck You, Voters
Example posts with the sentiment:
I’ll post more samples if you wish, but you can hardly be blind to the sentiment.
Mission accomplished!