Terminator Dark Fate: Where the hell did Carl come from? [spoilers]

Cafe Society
1

Stipulating that time travel plot lines rarely hold up to logical scrutiny, and also that TDF isn’t even probably in the top 20% of those in terms of intelligence …

What future did Schwarzenegger’s “Carl” character come from?

(Spoiler: early in the movie, we see a flashback of an Arnold-style terminator killing a young John Connor. Later, in the “present,” this terminator is living a quiet life as a drapery installer. For real.)

OK, so in T2, Sarah and John Connor, with the help of the good Arnold terminator, destroy the evil terminator and all the Cyberdyne technology (including the good Arnold terminator) that leads to Skynet and the creation of the terminators. So … no Cyberdyne, no Judgement Day, no terminators. That future is cancelled.

In TDF, we learn a different company somewhere in the non-Cyberdyne future has created a new AI weapon that, like Skynet, wants to kill all humans etc etc. From that future we get the enhanced human Grace and the new, slicker-than-ever terminator.

Sarah says she’s been killing terminators all along, so presumably they come from the new, non-Cyberdyne future. But what future does Carl come from? He can’t come from the old Cyberdyne future because it doesn’t exist anymore, and it seems pretty unlikely the new AI would just happen to create an identical terminator to terminate a hero who, logically speaking, isn’t even necessary anymore (since the future he will impact has already been cancelled).

Was he an earlier edition of the original movie’s T1 who just happened to arrive later in Sarah and John’s chronology?

2

Sarah mentions that Cyberdyne sent multiple terminators to kill John. Presumably they were all sent at the same time from the future, but to different points in the past. Carl (the one that killed John) was able to complete his job. Once finished, he had no purpose so he created his own. Once he realized how valuable life was he tried to make amends by helping Sarah track down any other terminators passing through time. Apparently it doesn’t matter if they came from Cyberdyne or the other future, what Carl detects is the rupture in space/time so he can alert Sarah to that breach.

3

So at some point in the Cyberdyne future, Skynet sent several “Arnolds” to kill John, but sent them to different points in the past?

One of them was the one in T1. Another was the one re-programmed by the resistance to help Sarah in T2. And a third was the one who actually succeeded in killing John and became Carl. Others arrived after John was already dead, and Sarah killed them (after being tipped off by Carl)? OK, I guess that makes sense.

Btw, I really enjoyed Carl’s story. IMO it could have made a pretty cool flick in its own right – what does a terminator do once it’s fulfilled its mission? I never thought I’d say it, but Schwarzenegger has actually grown into actor enough to pull it off with humor and depth.

4

Is this an alt timeline story or something? Are they assuming both T3 and Genesys never happened?

5

Yes, and Salvation. It’s a straight sequel to T2.

6

As far I can tell these are timelines:

  1. The Terminator----Terminator 2: Judgment Day—Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines

  2. The Terminator----Terminator 2: Judgment Day------Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles

  3. Terminator: Genysis (it was supposed to be a reboot of the franchise)

  4. The Terminator----Terminator 2: Judgment Day----Terminator: Dark Fate

I am not sure where Terminator Salvation fits in. I think it’s supposed to continuation of the first timeline but I am not sure.

7

Do Not Argue With a Terminator About How to Decorate Your Daughters Bedroom! *

  • That was supposed to be all caps but the site won’t let it!
8

I enjoyed the movei, andhat was my favorite scene in the whole thing. I really want to see a movie that follows Carl through his transformation from murderous automaton to interior design specialist. There’d be plenty of room for broad physical comedy too. Maybe Carl has to special order ladders since he apparently weighs 400+ pounds. Maybe Carl’s customer service is not so polished in the early days. “I want red stripes in this bedroom.” “INCORRECT. Fuck you, asshole!”

9

nm- weird double post.

10

[Moderating]

I haven’t seen the movie, but the spoiler in the OP seems rather integral to the discussion, so rather than adding spoiler boxes all over the place, I’ve labeled the thread.

11

Ok did a little research about Terminator timelines. Is that official “canon” that there was an Alpha timeline with a non-Reese-fathered-John Conner? Because that seems like a fan-fiction workaround theory (I seem to recall there was a specific term for this, but it escapes me) to me of the essential paradox of the Terminator franchise.

Why do we need to explain how the time paradox loop started? It just is. These people would have an aneurysm if they read “By His Bootstraps” or “All you zombies”

12

So why did he age? I’d have liked at least a throw away line: “I learned to alter my appearance to mimic aging to not stand out”, or did I miss something?

13

I’m kind of curious how Carl was able to live with his (platonic) girlfriend and adopted son for all those years without divulging that he’s a machine encased in human flesh. Sure, you can work past the “no sex” and the “weighing 400 pounds” things, but don’t they notice that you never eat or use the bathroom?

(Or maybe you do. The flesh casing ages like normal flesh, so maybe it comes with digestive organs, too?)

14

I wonder if maybe they knew, at least in part. His family seemed pretty resigned when he sent them away. I know he stated something to the effect that he had told them such a day would come, but I dunno, they seemed less distraught than I would have guessed.

I was anxiously waiting to see if he was going to drink one of those beers. All that flesh had to be sustained somehow, no?

15

Nope – he clearly brought out one for everyone but himself.

16

Yeah, I counted. But that leaves me wondering; Is Carl physically unable to drink, or maybe he’s learned from hard experience that he’s a mean drunk? Can you imagine a terminator fighting drunken-master style?

Maybe terminators have a more developed palate when it comes to beer and just can’t go for Pacifico,or was it Corona?

17

The way I see it:

There was the zeroeth timeline, where a non-Reese sired John saves the world from Skynet, through apparently natural ability.As a last-ditch effort, Skynet sent one (and only one) terminator back. This created a branch in the timeline, leading to:

The Terminator. In this, Reese-sired John is trained by Sarah to become the savior of the future. Here things get tricky.

John, trained by Sarah, grows up, saves the world from Skynet. Skynet, in a last-ditch effort, sends only one liquid metal terminator back in time. John sends a modified 101 to protect John. Skynet is defeated in this timeline before it ever forms. Billions of people live who never lived before. Until!:

Terminator 3. Where it is revealed that humans innate ability to destroy themselves leads to a new Skynet being created differently than before. it wages war on humanity. John, trained by Sarah, defeats Skynet for the first time again. Skynet, in a last-dtich effort, sends one terminator back in time to kill John. This creates a new timeline.

One of the sent back T3 terminators, a model 101, (not a liquid metal - maybe there was only one?) finds and kills John. (Dark fate). This however creates a different timeline, and Skynet is never created.

So Skynet “wins” by killing John, but then, John wasn’t needed. The future went differently. Carl lived out his life. He has the ability to look for time travel, but sees none. Instead of Skynet, legion was created. This waged war on mankind. A girl named Dani (who has never met Grace or Sarah) leads the revolution to defeat Legion. No other terminators we sent back in time. Carl is destroyed or rendered ineffective somehow in the war on humanity.

In a last-ditch effort, legion sends at least one Rev-9 terminator and several more of unknown design back in time to kill Dani. Grace is also sent back to protect her. in this timeline, Carl spots the time travel and warns Sarah, who destroys all the rest. (Each one that travels creates a new timeline, but the effects are negligible.Legion is still created.) The rev-9 is destroyed.

Dani grows up knowing Grace. We assume Legion is still created, Dani hopefully defeats it, and …well, we’ll just have to wait for the next movie.

The question I have is, who invented time travel??

18

Look how complicated it is! I want to make changes, but the timeline has already locked in!

Change “One of the sent back T3 terminators” to “the terminator”. In that timeline, there is only one sent back. the others come later (I think!)

19

It was a cleaning lady named Margaret.

Though it’s a precursor to all the timelines, that scene was never filmed, and Cameron doesn’t even know about it.

20

The outer shell is organic, I can see it showing the ravages of time.