Terrible Fantasy - Malazan Book of the Fallen and A Song of Ice and Fire

While I love Tolkien, I’m not generally a fan of the elves&dwarves&dragons school of modern fantasy. DnD novels bought for $1 at the 2ndhand bookshop can be guilty fun, but I don’t seek them out or anything. And I’ve never read a Drizzt novel…

Having said that, nothing I’ve read about either of the series under discussion has made me want to read them. And it’s all because they are multi-volume series, I think. I’ve been burned on that score before (Robert Jordan, if you were alive, I’d be looking at you). Miéville is much more to my liking.

Other authors who have earned a Hello Again cock-punch:

CS Forester
Patrick O’Brian
L. Frank Baum
George MacDonald Fraser
Arthur Conan Doyle
Marcel Proust

Although I appreciate Ice + Fire (note to GGM: get working!), I can certainly understand how some people would not find it thier cup of tea.
The low magic didn’t bother me, but some of the palace intrigue wasn’t for me. And the 3,824 charaters to keep track of.

Brian

As far as I know, all of those are authors of novels which share a common set of characters and theme, however, the books “in series” are not mutually interdependent. If you read “Hound of the Baskervilles” it makes plenty of sense and has a discernable beginning, middle and, end. In other words, it stands alone as a novel despite the fact that the author returned many times to the same characters and settings. I believe it is true for the majority of the authors on that list, that they never set out to write a multivolume magnum opus; rather, they told a particular story and returned to the well, so to speak, for further tales.

And it is the VERY rare writer, whose 10 volume set wouldn’t be more effective as a trilogy, likewise trilogy more effective as a novel, likewise novel more effective as a short story.

Proust may be that rare writer, but Steven Erickson most certainly is not.

I’m not a fan of fantasy at all, but I really loved the “Seer King” trilogy by Chris Bunch. It’s set in a world that seems to be a blend of Byzantium and India with a healthy dose of magic, including some rather Lovecraftian evil entities. The author was a patrol leader in Vietnam and obviously well-read in military history, and it really shows in the gritty battle scenes. Magic is really important but not commonplace, with magicians being an important part of warfare but not the only deciding factor. There is a lot of explicit sex, but not enough to be off-putting to anyone who is not a prude. Several characters are very well-developed and the story is very morally ambiguous - it is often unclear whether the protagonists are doing the right thing, and it’s often revealed that they are most definitely not.

I had already read the first 4 books in the Malazan series before I started on Fire and Ice, which I believe is a large part of why I prefer the former.

Yes, Erikson keeps you guessing, and I really like that. I enjoy figuring stuff out, based on little tidbits of conversations here and there. As for the books not giving a clear picture of the environment, I couldn’t say, really. I’ve had a fairly clear picture of every location the books have visited.

It should be noted that the first book is easily the most difficult to get into. Slug it out though, it gets better. Deadhouse Gates is one of my top 10 books of all time.

Missed the edit window.

I doubt the Malazan series would work as well as a trilogy, at least for me.

I suppose I may be in the minority here, but I’m not convinced effectiveness is all that desirable. If I find a good story, I want it to continue. Hell, I’m delighted the Malazan series is 10 books. I love the characters, the environments, the story, the world, even Erikson’s writing. Although some of the poems starting the chapters are kinda dull.

They always are. In any book by anyone. Uggggh.

That, and once you read a character like Kruppe, Iskarl Pust, or Tehol/Bugg…

Some of the funniest shit anywhere.

-Joe

One of the most interesting aspects of Malazan is that many of them actually are standalone novels. I just discovered the series a few months ago and am on Midnight Tides. While it is connected to the previous main event, it is definitely on its own arc.

This is a very handy Erikson reference, by the way: http://encylopaediamalazica.pbwiki.com/

I love China Mieville for Perdido Street Station, but after the deeply subpar The Scar and Iron Council, I am less interested in what he has to say about the genre.

Agreed. I tried a “Maeglin Talks Like Kruppe” day a few weeks ago, but my wife did not see the humor and did not let me out of the house until I stopped.

Her remarks bounced off the enormous girth of my equanimity.

I just started the Malazan series last week and I’m almost done of the first book.

Even though I have the second book sitting in front of me I think I’m going to have to re-read the first again as I’ll admit I’m still having problems keeping the characters and plots straight.

Except Kruppe. Kruppe rocks.

Don’t worry too much about it, as the second book is an almost complete non sequitur. Just enjoy the ride. Much will make sense later.

Jon Snow really is probably the most flat and paint-by-numbers main character in ASOIAF. A lot of fanboys do like him because he’s exactly what they expect to be the hero of a fantasy novel: he’s the outcast of his family, he’s honorable, he’s angsty, etc. I personally only find him interesting when he has some conflict with his Night’s Watch vows, as when he fell for Ygritte. For some reason, vows of celibacy just really grate on my nerves. I am interested to find out what happens with him, Melisandre, and Stannis.

Well, okay, Bran’s chapters are more boring than Jon’s. At least Jon fights ice zombies.

But just about everyone else is fantastic. Brienne is your stereotypical chainmail-bikini sword wench turned on it’s head. She’s this badass female knight who is ugly. Ugly. How often do you get a female knight who’s actually tall and powerfully built and has big shoulders and battle wounds and isn’t thinly-disguised fanservice? She’s also one of the most likeable and honorable characters in the series, apart from the dearly departed Ned. And she and Jaime have all this great UST. When he leaps into the bear pit to save her – I wibble.

And then we have Sansa and Sandor, or SanSan, possibly THE OTP of ASOIAF, edging out Brienne and Jaime. Keep in mind that GRRM used to write for the 1980s Beauty and the Beast TV show, and there’s a little of Catherine and Vincent in Sansa and Sandor (and, for that matter, a touch in Jaime and Brienne, too). Here’s two people who would never, ever have expected to find this connection. Sansa is this upper-class lady-in-training who fully expects to marry her shining knight and live happily ever after. Sandor is a hideously scarred cynic who disdains knights and everything they stand for and lives only for the sword. He can be downright mean to Sansa, but in his own weird way he’s also trying to protect her. She’s so naive that she honestly thinks that all beautiful people are good, that all knights are gallant, and that everything works out okay in the end. Sansa for her part is at once terrified and intrigued by him, almost against her will. There’s also all this fantastic subtext throughout the books – Robert telling Ned to get Sansa “a dog” after Lady is killed (keep in mind Sandor’s nickname is the Hound), him dropping his cloak and her snuggling up in it (btw, Westerosi wedding involve the groom covering the bride with his cloak), and even Sansa deciding that Sandor really did kiss her during the Battle of the Blackwater, even though it’s obvious he didn’t.

Robb and Jeyne Westerling is another great example of how well Martin turns traditional fantasy on its head. So here we have Robb, the golden boy, the rightful King in the North, and all that. And he falls in love and marries Jeyne, who’s family is allied with the Lannisters. Typical Romeo and Juliet. BUT there’s fallout. Robb was already betrothed, and when he broke the betrothal to marry Jeyne, he earns some new enemies. Jeyne’s family, as it turns out, were in on this plot from the beginning – they set up Robb to fall for Jeyne and when the shit goes down, they take a step or two up the social ladder and get in Tywin Lannister’s good graces. That’s chilling.

Any chance you could translate this into English?

Ah, you’re obviously not into fandom! Forgive me.

OTP: One True Pairing.
Wibble: just a warm and fuzzy sort of feeling.
UST: Unresolved Sexual Tension.

… none of these acronyms existed back when I believed fiawol. Fen grokketh not.

Well, I’m hip, cool, and massively endowed, and I didn’t understand them either. I just assumed from the context that I probably might possibly have had some sort of idea.

-Joe

Come on, you’re halfway through Gardens Of The Moon and you base your judgement on that? Erikson has the most enriching prose to date when it comes to fantasy. Please keep reading. He does not hold your hand and continuously forces you to do work for yourself. It’s a whirlwind of sh*t that you have to sort out on your own sometimes. I’m almost finished with the final book in the series, and when I’m done, I’m going to start back at Gardens again.

It’s been 9 years since the OP. I’m going out on a limb and guessing that if the OP hasn’t read the rest of the series by now, the OP will never read the rest of the series.

I find it amusing, as a participant in the original run of the thread who was championing ASOIAF, that having since read Malazan I prefer it to ASOIAF by a huge margin. :smiley: