Terrorism thread

[up_the_junction]

Yay, they beat the Orlando nightclub total - go USA!
US airstrike allegedly kills 56 civilians in northern Syria
Syrian Observatory for Human Rights calls bombing near Manbij a ‘massacre’
US military investigating claim of deaths including 11 children

[YogSothoth]

I am also against terrorism. Terrorism bad, m’kay?

[up_the_junction]

Are you? Are you sure you’re not just against the wrong kind of terrorism …

[levdrakon]

@up_the_junction

Yay, they beat the Orlando nightclub total - go USA!
US airstrike allegedly kills 56 civilians in northern Syria
Syrian Observatory for Human Rights calls bombing near Manbij a ‘massacre’
US military investigating claim of deaths including 11 children

According to some dude in the UK with a cellphone who’s been accused of defending Islamic extremists and has been described as having the credibility of a waiter in a pizzeria?

Let’s wait for some credible analysis.

[VinylTurnip]

Hey! I was once a waiter in a pizzeria, and there is nothing incredible about me.

[Alessan]

Atrocities carried out by state actors are different by nature than atrocities carried out by non-state actors, and preventing them involves the use of completely different methods. This isn’t a moral judgment, just a practical one. Coming into a terrorism thread and harping on about crimes committed by America or Israel or whatever is like coming into a thread on cancer and saying that AIDS is just as bad. Sure, it’s horrible too, but its symptoms are different, its treatment is different, so why bring it up?

[up_the_junction]

[RIGHT][/RIGHT]

@Alessan

Atrocities carried out by state actors are different by nature than atrocities carried out by non-state actors, and preventing them involves the use of completely different methods. This isn’t a moral judgment, just a practical one. Coming into a terrorism thread and harping on about crimes committed by America or Israel or whatever is like coming into a thread on cancer and saying that AIDS is just as bad. Sure, it’s horrible too, but its symptoms are different, its treatment is different, so why bring it up?

At least we’re agreed on “atrocities” and the fact of it being a crime.

My apologies for harping on about reports of 56 dead civilians, inc. 11 children.

[John_Mace]

@up_the_junction

[RIGHT][/RIGHT]
At least we’re agreed on “atrocities” and the fact of it being a crime.

My apologies for harping on about reports of 56 dead civilians, inc. 11 children.

Many of us Americans are just as much against the drone strikes as you are. Please keep that in mind.

[boffking]

Why weren’t the mass attacks on police in Dallas and Baton Rouge considered to be terrorism? I think they were.

[John_Mace]

Cops are not military, but not civilians either. I usually think of terrorism as acts against civilians, but I could live with calling those “terrorism”.

[DinoR]

@boffking

Why weren’t the mass attacks on police in Dallas and Baton Rouge considered to be terrorism? I think they were.

An article on 538 seems to agree with you, and me.
2016 Could Be The Deadliest Year For Terror Attacks Targeting Police Since 1973

Much remains unknown about the Dallas and Baton Rouge shootings, but early reports suggest both could qualify as terrorism: Police investigators say the suspected shooters in both incidents were seeking to kill police officers, and social media accounts that were linked in media reports to the Baton Rouge suspect endorsed violence against the government.3 The Dallas shooter killed five police officers, and the Baton Rouge shooter killed three officers. Two other attacks earlier this year that each killed one officer could also qualify as terrorism.

The article, for those who can’t be bothered to read, does specify that the 9-11 attacks which did kill more police didn’t specifically target police. That was the deadliest year on record by far for police dying in terror attacks.

I’ve seen some statements from Homeland Security and the FBI that are more vague but don’t explicitly label it as not terror. Homeland said something about not seeing ties to international terrorism. That doesn’t mean they aren’t terror attacks. That still leaves options for ties to domestic terror groups and lone wolf/unaffiliated terrorists. The FBI in one of the cases said they weren’t investigating it as terror. That doesn’t mean it’s not. They just aren’t investigating it as one. When the perpetrators are dead and there’s no evidence of ties to larger terror groups, there’s not a lot to be gained from committing limited resources to make a federal terror case of it.

[adaher]

IMO, you can’t have terrorism without a movement behind it, an organization aiding or directing attacks. There is no organized movement in the US dedicated to killing police officers. When one person does something on his own, that’s just an ordinary crime. Plus there’s no effort with the cop killers to change policy. It’s really no more than simple revenge killing.

Even with McVeigh, there were at least two people involved.

[Memnon]

In other news, far from being an impulsive loner, the Nice terrorist may have been radicalised over a period of several months and may have had as many as five accomplices.

[up_the_junction]

@Tithonus

In other news, far from being an impulsive loner, the Nice terrorist may have been radicalised over a period of several months and may have had as many as five accomplices.

It’s often disappointing when The Guardian republish an AP story, I guess it’s after office hours in London.

No mention at all of his established mental illness …

[adaher]

Most people who actually carry out attacks are mentally ill. Stable people do the thinking and planning, and actively recruit people who don’t think so clearly.

[up_the_junction]

Almost all attacks are carried out by drones.

[Nava]

@levdrakon

Nava, aren’t you the local Spanish expert or something? Would you describe Basque terrorism as Christian terrorism or Witch terrorism or something else? I understand the Basque are Roman Catholic with a history of witchcraft.

ETA’s ideology is atheistic (they’re communists). The “witchcraft” you refer to is on one hand the remains of the pre-roman religion and on the other the excuse used by some people to rob other people - at Inquisition-point, if you will.

[Maastricht]

Let’s not forget the mass shootings in American homes.

From Huffpost:

On Aug. 8, 2015 David Conley broke into his ex-girlfriend Valerie Jackson’s house in Houston, Texas, and killed her, her husband and her six children, methodically shooting each one in the head. Jackson had recently dumped Conley and reunited with her husband after Conley allegedly smashed her head into a refrigerator. When she reconciled with her husband, she changed the locks on her house. So Conley climbed in a window.

Although they get the lion’s share of media attention, public mass shootings … aren’t representative of the typical mass shooting in the U.S.

Most are like the one Conley allegedly committed. The majority of mass shootings in the U.S. take place in private. They occur in the home, and the victims are predominantly women and children.

The untold story of mass shootings in America is one of domestic violence. It is one of men (yes, mostly men) targeting and killing their wives or ex-girlfriends or families. The victims are intimately familiar to the shooters, not random strangers. This kind of violence is not indiscriminate — though friends, neighbors and bystanders are often killed alongside the intended targets.

The Huffington Post analyzed five years of mass shooting data… in which at least four people were killed with a gun (the common definition of mass shootings, though there is debate over the best way to define them).

We found that in 57 percent of mass shootings, the shooter targeted either a family member or an intimate partner.

[Kimstu]

Munich shopping mall attack just now is probably terrorism.

[mascaroni]

@Nava

ETA’s ideology is atheistic (they’re communists). The “witchcraft” you refer to is on one hand the remains of the pre-roman religion and on the other the excuse used by some people to rob other people - at Inquisition-point, if you will.

I haven’t folowed it closely, but aren’t ETA trying to follow the lead of the Northern Irish peace process and are looking for a political solution?