Terrorist attack in Barcelona

[Ramira]

@carnivorousplant

Do terrorists have a particular interest in Spain because the Muslims were kicked out of Cordova in 1492, their last hold of Europe?

@Nava

Not Córdoba, 1492 was Granada.

Yes and while some DAESH types might invent this as a reason, it is a post facto rationalisation.

If there were a point of attention it would be among the descendants of the expelled ones later when the Catholic Monarchs as they called themselves broke the treaty of Granada.

But it is not a real political sentiment, if there are real sentiments, it is about current politics.

Note that that was prededed by 800 years and that there are 500+ years of subsequent border(s), including the Spanish Protectorate of Morocco and Spain still having a couple of footholds on the shores of Africa (Ceuta and Melilla)

The Spanish protectorate meaning the colonial conquest with the French assistance from 1900 forward. Very kind of the France to help.

Germany, **Algeria, **Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Morocco, Canada, China, Colombia, Romania, Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador, Egypt, Spain, United States, Philippines, France, England (I’m assuming it actually means the UK, I’m not going to ask a paramedic for political subtlety in foreign affairs), Grece, Holland, Taiwan, Honduras, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Kuwait, Macedonia, Mauritania, Pakistan, Peru, Dominican Republic, Turkey.

The murderous criminal DAESH of course do not care they killed and maimed even the fellow Muslims… (not that the citizens of the countries like the France or the England etc. could not also be). Barcelona is very popular among the Maghrebine middle classes for the summer vacation and when I was there just a few weeks ago la Rambla was full of the families from the Maghreb, even some I recognized, it was funny running into someone I know from work there by random

These murderous idiot criminals of course declare takfir on anyone not accepting their perverted pseudo theology.

[ETA it is reported by the Moroccan press that among the injured in the very grave condition is a little six year old moroccan kid on vacation with his family - this murderous criminal idiot Moussa Oubkir by his own theology has broken an innocent and will burn in hell]

@Nava

It’s possible that Driss Oukabir had nothing to do with it; he was arrested when he went to the police to report that he thought his brother (now identified as the driver) had stolen his ID, which had at that point been reported to have been found in the van. The cops still needed to investigate it, and the protocol still did call for this arrest, but it’s one more reason to agree that “swarmed with questions, the prisoner confessed*” is not the way to go. He may be as much of a victim as anybody else.

With a facebook page showing the berberiste nationalist flag, it is very possible. It is not usual for takfiri salafiste sympathy to go along with the display of this flag, as the sentiments of the berberist mouvement are mostly considered by the salafistes as kufr and dividing the umma of their vision (hypocrisy of course). The berber flag is very strongly associated among the maghrebines with the tendencies not compatible with the salafistes.

Of course people change and hold incoherent opinions and orientations sometimes.

@JoseB

BREAKING NEWS: The driver of the van and Moussa Oukabir have been confirmed to be dead. The two were among the five terrorists killed yesterday night in Cambrils.

pity he is dead it would have been useful to interrogate him.

[Gatopescado]

@carnivorousplant

Do terrorists have a particular interest in Spain because the Muslims were kicked out of Cordova in 1492, their last hold of Europe?

That’s one hell of a grudge.

[Ramira]

if it were not pure fiction.

[Magiver]

because the real reason is?

[LorieSmurf]

@Drunky_Smurf

Says the lady who said this about 9/11:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8967666&postcount=5

Wow. That’s pretty fucked up.

[Nava]

@Magiver

because the real reason is?

Targets of opportunity. These guys don’t come to Spain or France or Belgium or… to commit murder: they commit the murders where they happen to be. Spain has a lot of immigrants from Magreb and two footholds in Magreb. Quite a few of the people arrested at different times for crimes related to DAESH were Spanish nationals, generally from Melilla.

Saying that these murders happened because Boabdil cried is like saying that the latest ruckus in Palestine was caused by the biblical Jacob’s birth.
LorieSmurf, read the rest; I was talking about the Americans who owned the company where I worked, suddenly realizing that “oh my GAWD there are explosives in our factories”. Forty years had that factory had explosives; forty years it had been in a place with locally-grown terrorists; forty years it had been in a town whose main transformer was periodically blown up by terrorists-in-training and the Americans had never worried. The sudden and completely unnecessary new security measures were 40 years late and many dollars short. And I didn’t post it on 9/12.

[Ramira]

@Magiver

because the real reason is?

A dozen other real things that are not the fictional imaginations.

[MrDibble]

@Drunky_Smurf

Says the lady who said this about 9/11:

Did she say in on Sep 9, 2001? No? Then it’s irrelevant (and, anyway, well-explained in boththat thread and thePit thread it spawned)

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Take this hijack to the Pit. It is not appropriate in this thread. No warning issued- but drop it everyone.

@Drunky_Smurf

Says the lady who said this about 9/11:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8967666&postcount=5

@LorieSmurf

Wow. That’s pretty fucked up.

@MrDibble

Did she say in on Sep 9, 2001? No? Then it’s irrelevant (and, anyway, well-explained in boththat thread and thePit thread it spawned)

[Magiver]

@Ramira

A dozen other real things that are not the fictional imaginations.

And what are the dozen other real things that are not fictional imaginations? Specifically, what is the ideological justification for the terrorist attack(s) in Barcelona?

[carnivorousplant]

@Magiver

Specifically, what is the ideological justification for the terrorist attack(s) in Barcelona?

Some guys who are crazy enough to believe that killing people will bring back the caliphate.

[Magiver]

@carnivorousplant

Some guys who are crazy enough to believe that killing people will bring back the caliphate.

Plenty of crazy people in the world. Wouldn’t that apply to Buddhism and other religions?

[Ramira]

@Magiver

And what are the dozen other real things that are not fictional imaginations? Specifically, what is the ideological justification for the terrorist attack(s) in Barcelona?

I am sure that you can discover by parachuting special motocycle riding investigators in and reading the ‘alternative right’ sources dear to the religious speculators ‘just asking the questions.’

[Nava]

@Magiver

Plenty of crazy people in the world. Wouldn’t that apply to Buddhism and other religions?

Which part, the part about being targets? They are. DAESH treats everybody as a target.

[JoseB]

@Magiver

Plenty of crazy people in the world. Wouldn’t that apply to Buddhism and other religions?

Well, Aum Shinrykyo were crazy buddhists…

BREAKING NEWS: 14 people arrested in relation with the attacks so far. Most of the people of interest in the police investigation (dead, on the run, or arrested) were from the village of Ripoll, in the province of Girona. The original core terror cell apparently was made of 12 individuals: 5 shot dead in Cambrils, 4 arrested, 2 dead in the explosion of Alcanar, and one (Youness Abouyaaqoub) on the run. They apparently had big plans to stage at least one truly devastating attack, if not more.

The police is working with the theory that the perpetrators were radicalized by an individual (named as Abdelbaqi Es Sattii) who was, until not long ago, imam in Ripoll, of the Salafi tendency. Es Sattii said some time ago that he was going to go “back to Morocco for 3 months on holiday to see his family”. Police is carrying out DNA tests on remains found in the house of Alcanar that blew up in order to check whether Es Sattii is one of the dead there.

Family members of the dead terrorists joined a protest against terrorism in Ripoll, firmly denouncing any kind of terrorism, saying that they had not seen signs of radicalization in their family members (many of them barely teenagers; for instance Moussa Oukabir was just 17 years old) and expressing feelings of devastation and deep shame. The cousin of 22 year old Youness Abouyaaqoub (the man on the run) says she is convinced that the above-mentioned ex-imam was responsible for “brainwashing” his cousin and others. His family members made calls for Abouyaaqoub to give himself up to the police.

Will keep reporting as more information becomes available.

[Nava]

Currently the list from the police includes 5 dead identified in Cambrils, 3 on the run, 1 wounded and arrested in Alcanar, biological debris from 3 different people who may be those one the run, 4 others under arrest.

One of the people under arrest is Driss Oukabir, who may still be cleared, and another is the owner of the A3. Both of them went to the police themselves; if charges are ever leveled against them, that lowers the seriousness.

[Springtime_for_Spacers]

This BBC report contains information and speculation about what the terrorists intended had they not blown up their explosives. One theory is that they may have intended to target La Sagrada Familia. It is chilling. Whether that was the building they were targeting or another the plan must have been to use the van attack on pedestrians to drive people into that target building. And then blow it up. So glad their incompetence prevented this.

[JoseB]

The terrorists had accumulated more than 100 tanks of butane and propane gas in the house that blew up in Alcanar. They were planning to use triacetone triperoxyde (TATP) as initiator for their bomb. TATP is very popular among terrorists because it can be synthesized very easily from common household ingredients and, being a non-nitrogenated explosive, is difficult to detect. However, it is very finicky and sensitive to basically anything (friction, shock, heat…). Its unpredictability has given it the name “mother of Satan” among the terrorists that would manufacture and use it.

It is not a substance to be put in unexperienced hands. So, silver lining – these guys were, in addition to a bunch of asshole murderous criminals, also a bunch of incompetents.

Police is combing the flat of the imam of Ripoll in search of biological material to check if remains found in Alcanar are those of the imam of Ripoll. And those remains are mighty small… the only thing left from another terrorist (Youssef Aalla) were his ears… The sole survivor of the explosion was very lucky. He has confessed to police (in hospital) that they were crafting explosives.

Three brothers (family name Aalla) were involved in the whole thing. One (Youssef) died in the explosion in Alcanar; another (Said, 19 y.o.) was killed in Cambrils by police; he was the driver of the Audi A3 that ran over people in the port area of that town. His brother Mohamed (26 y.o.) was the owner of said Audi A3 and is under arrest.

The father of the Aalla brothers gave an interview. I felt sorry for the poor man. He was totally crushed. Two sons dead, the other in prison for the foreseeable future. He said that he had never seen anything strange about his sons, and I believe him. So far none of the terrorists who carried out the attacks had any kind of terror-related antecedents, and they were not under surveillance for suspected radicalization (the imam is a different story, but he was apparently keeping a low profile and not doing anything overtly suspicious).

The father of the Aalla brothers also said he had no will to live left.

It is not just the victims of the attacks and their families the ones that have their lives destroyed, broken or forever changed – the families of the perpetrators as well. At least, this is what I see when I see the shame, the distress and the devastation among them. This adds yet another layer of sadness and tragedy to the disgusting horror that took place. The terrorists hurt not just “mere” strangers… but their own families as well.

The mother of the terrorist on the run made yet another appeal for her son to give himself up to the police. Hopefully he will listen to her.

[Springtime_for_Spacers]

Forgot my link.

[Grestarian]

@JoseB

Well, Aum Shinrykyo were crazy buddhists…

Ummm…not quite.

Crazy, for sure, but not exactly Buddhist. More like misled followers of a Christian/Buddhist hybrid megalomaniac. While Shoko Asahara delved into esoteric versions of Tantric Buddhism (itself rather esoteric to begin with) he built his following by claiming to be the [Spritual] younger brother of Jesus Christ and somehow the next logical person to continue saving the world from itself.

He is (was?) in good company along with Hong Xiuquan of the Taiping Rebellion in China, Wovoka of the Ghost Dance movement in the United States, (purportedly) Adolph Hitler of the German Third Reich, Jim Jones of USA > French Guyana*, and Saul of Tarsus. Possibly Joseph Smith, as well. These people claim to have met Jesus in some kind of dream and/or fever state and been appointed the next Messiah.

Y’know, going down that road doesn’t seem to end well…

As Appolo noted in the Star Trek expisode Who Mourns for Adonais, “The time has passed. There is no room for gods.”

We now return you to your more important coverage.
G!

*whose claim was essentially just doubling down on the fraud in his attempt to create a Sociallist Commune that wasn’t doing Communism like the Chinese and Soviets, but claiming to be the appointed spiritual cousin of Jesus and creating a communal enclave like Jesus wanted…talk about TWISTED!]