Rather than start a new thread in light of today’s terror alert being elevated, I figured I’d bump this up to see if anything new can be added
I was going to ask about the Hoover dam’s vulnerability to a tanker bomb or similar. Seems that they’ve thought of that already though at the Hoover site.
Whilst it may creep some of you out to talk about possible targets, as others have said you can bet that they’ve already thought of everything that we’ll think of here.
If they can’t get a dam, my money would be on a dirty car bomb in a non-major city centre. I don’t know what detection devices there are, but it’s not worth risking Washington or any of the other major cities.
In a similar vein, rather than the US, I’d choose to hit the UK, or possibly Spain. On Christmas.
From: “daleel_almojahid1”
Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:12 pm
Subject: An Urgent letter to the American Administration from Al-Qaida
An Urgent letter to the American Administration from Al-Qaida
In the name of God the almighty
It is insane avoiding reading the following words with out having a
clear, wise and fast decision.
As soon as possible because time is a critical element in the coming
attack and is more important than any time in human history.
We can tell you that the wire has been led up and it’s in its final
stages and nothing will stop it but God and the wisdom of the Arab
rules and the non Arab rules, we can tell you that we are people from
you and with in you, planning with you and have knowledge of all your
planes.
We warn you that time is running fast so fast that it’s getting harder
to turn out the led fire in the wire.
And the out come of the attack will be unbelievable and unexpected to you.
Upon that any wrong move the administration takes in directing its
policy will lead you to the (cave of darkness)
And that’s the name of the coming operation that will stop the (9) and
their people and destroy them forever, although we apologize from now
to the human race from the hardship that will affect them as an
aftermath to the attack, but it is a less hardship for us than to see
continents slaved, we apologize in advance to the American people and
to the European community’s but you have stud hand in hand with your
governments and left the Jews take control of the rest of the world.
The childish playing with earth is not a simple thing, we know that
and we plane things very carefully more careful than you could ever
imagine and also assessed the deaths expected and their numbers that
humanity can take.
You know that order number (8) has been issued, but you don’t know
that we know, and now we tell you and now you know.
And this order is the last life line and the only chance to drop cold
water on the led wire, so let it be that your answer to us be fast and
with actions from the highest levels in the American administration,
and know that we will be all open ears to you and we will be up to
date with your answer once you have decided to take the right decision
from your side.
We know that you didn’t go on doing to the world what your doing with
out a long and well study, but we tell you that you don’t have much
time with us and we wont accept any further thinking or more time, you
have started this war not us!
We highly request that the final decision that will come out comes
from highly respected people in the administration due to the high
boiling point that has reached now and the possibility of stopping
this wheel is still on and is not impossible and you know what we mean.
Upon the following facts mentioned, you know our demands well, but we
will put them down again so that the world will forgive us for what
will happen soon due to your arrogance and childish acts of
dictatorship and your love of being under the Jewish rule being slaved
under them under all kinds of names.
We here by say, our demands are real and what we ask for is ours, and
we wont pull back on the real Christians or Jews, they will find us to
be a nation that has believed in God and our religion Islam which is
the last religion will haven them all under its wings and will give
them more than what they have got from any other religion although we
don’t believe that any other religion beside the three religions is right.
Our demands,
- The complete and right away stop of your (masked) invasion of our
Islamic lands in any part of the world east or west. - Taking out the (illegal immigrants that came back to the land of
Palestine) which you have records of all of them in your archives. - The return of all the Muslim money stolen in (Gold) not in any kind
of money note. As we have mentioned to you before. - The returning of the old borders known to you and we press on the
northern borders. - The release of all our prisoners in your jails whom you know and we
know only. - The dismantle of the so called (United Nations and its council) in
an international decision. - We share with you the importance of water and oil and we share the
idea of it staying as it is but the pricing of oil is left to us and
we promise you to make it available at a reasonable price for poor and
for rich nations. - we here by advise you to take fast decisions to stop order number
(8), it’s the thin line between us and you, and you have to answer us
as soon as possible, as we told you before the glass of cold water is
with in your hands and the wire is in front of you in its final stage
to destroying what you have built for years in secret but God has made
us be your stopping mountain that appeared upon you, the daylight
nightmare that will stand against you, and we know that the smartest
in you wont be able to discover how to drop the glass of cold water on
our wire with out our help, but you will be forced even if you don’t
want to. We have given you the solution, so either you are with us or
against us, that’s your way of thinking isn’t it! But we know that you
are not with us but you will be forced to be (and we have warned). It
is not in our morals to attack you with such a big attack with out a
warning, we wont do what you did to us times and times before under
the rule of the devilish tree that was planted by (whom you know)
feeding it and giving it water with your blessings as you enslaved
your self’s and your people under their rule.
All you have to do now is to stand up for once a real stand for your
own good and the good of your nation and people that will be attacked
by total destruction (cave of darkness), and history will re-write
that your punishment was a combined punishment of all the nations that
came before you and walked your same path. And you will then cry like
women in your underground caves.
And it will be fair enough for you to see that for us knowing that you
will run away hiding in your underground caves, we will give you a
prior few minutes notice before our blessed attack so that you will be
able to watch your destruction with your own satellite as we would be
by then have passed the sky’s of the seventh sky to heaven and your
nation to the fires of hell, and what and end for letting you govern
them and move them to the direction of hell and what a direction!
Praise to God almighty.
Islamic Jihad Brigade
(Black Death Squad)
8th Squad (Squad of order #8)
(19/19/19/23)
Daleel_Almojahid
Al-Qaida
EOM
you Amerikkkans will do nothing
Sun Dec 21 2003 2:48:22 pm
217.110.209.212
you are ihere is a serial incase you need it…
Serial: 564A-474B-624B-5A6B-686D-6Botent and will be stunned by what is to come. You can and will do nothing because no country will behind the mission. Therefore you can not and will not react. You can not attack the land of two cities or any other middle east country due to what the true freddom fighters of Allah will accomplish.
Go back to drinking your beer Amerikkkan pig, you will all perish soon and it will be nice to know you are one of the perished. What the skies for the light and the word of Allah
Praise Allah! Death to Amerikkka!
Oh, and as far as sources are concerned, these are actual Dod communications that have been forwarded from Defense Threat Reduction Agency.
And the heavens opened up with a great cry: CITE?
Uh, I don’t think that DTRA does what you think it does.
Those emails are from a Yahoo Groups site run by a guy who claims to be al Qaeda. I have no idea what his bona fides are.
There have been some emails put out that have been on the money in the past with:
- The Bombing In Saudi Arabia
- In Turkey
- and now this
Either way, I think we could agree its only a matter of time before some get through. The DOD isnt exactly telling us what thier successes are on thwarting planned attacks.
randy054,
I’d love to know where you got those typo-laden threat letters. They have a lot in common: they each sound awfully authentic, and they each sound like one of the many saber-rattling threats the US receives from unbalanced individuals every day. What I don’t understand is why they came from DTRA, who generally deal with nation-to-nation, agreed-to threat reductions and treaty enforcement. I don’t think that they regularly make it their business to leak terrorist threat letters to the public.
See, DTRA is the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, who are part of DoD-- they deal with established states and their arsenals. Admittedly, this probably includes reducing the threat of ‘loose nukes’, but I’m not sure why they’d have a letter from a guy who seems like a domestic terrorist (that “amerikkka” spelling is so quaint). Unlike what their name would seem to imply to someone who’d just read it for the first time, they don’t actually receive the threats. Or if they do, it is my understanding that they passed them along to the FBI, CIA, and/or State Dept.
cites:
- DTRA’s webpage (note: it’s in the .MIL domain)
- professional contact with DTRA personnel
According to this AP story:
Ever since the sniper attacks last year, I’ve thought that similar efforts undertaken by trained marksmen who weren’t trying to get caught (unlike Mohammed and Malvo who were begging that idiot police chief to catch them) would be a brilliantly effective, cheap, and practically unstoppable terrorist tactic.
I live in the Washington, DC, area, and I was astounded by the level of panic the attacks instilled in my friends and neighbors. People were seriously suggesting walking around with large umbrellas, running zig-zag fashion from the gas pump to inside the station while their gas was pumped, etc., and other silly ideas intended to make it harder for the snipers to pick them off. Half a dozen teams like this, at cities around the country, would turn the country upside down. And if a few of the teams are captured or killed, just set up a few new ones.
The terrorists don’t want to fight a Clausewitzian war. They simply have no intention of fighting a war at all. They don’t care if we are afraid, or if we are steeled against them, or if we ignore them completely. None of that enters their minds, because none of that is a part of their fantasy.
Fantasy? Indeed. They see themselves and us as players in a Great Religious Fantasy, a fantasy that involves them as Crusading Heros and us as The Great Satan. They will die to defeat us, and we will be defeated. They will go to Paradise, we will go to Torment. It is that simple.
If we win victories, it is Allah’s way of testing them. If their planes unexpectedly topple one of Our Evil Symbols, it is Allah’s reward to His Faithful. They don’t care about what we think, for we are not human: we are Satan. They don’t care if they die, for they will go to Paradise. They don’t care if our government crushes their government, for Allah shall Prevail.
We had it easy against the Viet Cong. They, at least, had goals we could understand: Subvert and destroy our war machine to help the Global Communist Revolution spread to South Vietnam. We lost against them because they refused to stand up and fight the way we’d been taught in West Point, but at least they fought a war. The terrorists aren’t fighting a war: They are acting out a fantasy that involves martyrs and the death of Satan. If we fight them by protecting the things we think are essential, we will lose.
The Statue of Liberty is at a greater risk than Brooklyn Bridge, simply because the Statue of Liberty is more of a symbol. I’m surprised it wasn’t hit in the 9/11 attack. Maybe it was too far off the flightpath. In any case, nothing that isn’t a big symbol is at a huge risk.
Lee Harris provided many of my insights, and it would do us all a service to read them. I agree with his main thesis, as it is the only way to explain why they hit the WTC as their main thrust, but I disagree with his stance on racial profiling.
One more time: why did you say that these emails came from DTRA?
Is it?
I mean, to US it’s a huge symbol, but do the terrorist types even have much awareness of it? Could it be just a very big statue of a woman to them? (I have had at least one immigrant Muslim ask me if the Statue of Liberty is a statue of the Virgin Mary - after all, we’re such a Christian nation and don’t we worship her, being infidels? Granted, that’s a sample of one, but if one person could have that idea, so could others). Given how these guys view women - basically as a means to have more sons, satisfy sexual urges, cook food, and otherwise they should be unseen and unheard - they may even have a psychological blind spot in regards to the Lady with the Lamp.
No, the Statue of Liberty was not “off the flight path”. It could have been easily hit on 9/11 if it had been a target.
No, these guys went after BIG SYMBOLS. Symbols that were important in THEIR minds, not ours. The WTC not only represented economic power, they were the two biggest buildings in New York City. They were a distinctive part of the city skyline, visible in movies, TV broadcasts, used on postcards, little snowglobes - you name it. Sort of like the Eiffel tower in Paris. Paris arguably has more important buildings, but none that stick up so high. Or used to symbolize the city. The WTC was used to symbolize NYC - show a picture of the towers, you think “New York”. Strke the towers, you strike NYC symbolically. Destroy the towers, you destroy the city.
Likewise, I don’t for a minute believe the DC plane was looking for the White House, couldn’t find it, then switched to the Pentagon. I believe the target was the Pentagon all along. Right now the US arguably has the most powerful military on Earth, and that military can be symbolized by the big, five-sided building in DC. Strike the Pentagon, you strike at the US military. Bring down the Pentagon, you symbolically bring down the US military.
Where was the fourth plane headed? I don’t know - and we can’t assume that it was intended for the Capitol or the White House just because those are important to us. It might have been the Washington Monument - another tall and symbolic structure. It might have been something else, somewhere else.
If you want to figure out what their next target is you can’t look at what’s important to us, you have to look at what’s important to them.
Broomstick: That’s a very good analysis. It shows I don’t think like a terrorist, mainly. 
I agree totally that the WTC was visible in any NYC skyline and therefore constituted a major symbol in any view of the US, once you’ve made the decision that NYC is an important US symbol.
The only thing I can think of with the symbolic impact of the WTC anywhere else in this country would be the Golden Gate Bridge. But even that is imperfect: Whereas you can think of the WTC as being the Satan's Commerce' and the Pentagon as being the Satan’s Army’, you can’t think of the Golden Gate as being anything other than the `Satan’s Bigass Orange Bridge’. So I’m stumped.
Thank you, Randy, I was sleeping too soundly and you fixed that for me.
Actually, I’m about to make fun of the whole thing. Why? Because it gives me pleasure. Also, nothing cheezes off a guy who wants to be taken seriously more than being laughed at.
I know we don’t have a lot of folks fluent in Arabic. Seems they have trouble finding good translators, too.
Every time I read something like this I think of a child about to do something naughty saying “Look at me! Look at me!”
More unintelligible quotes: “All your base belong to us!” and “What’s the frequency, Kenneth?”
Huh? I think I understand what this guy’s raving about…
Yes, that’s what’s makes it a surprise, right?
Well, geez, how about you guys being just a little more clear in what you’re saying? After all, we don’t have the benefit of a madrassah education, you need to speak slowly, shout in an exaggerated manner, gesture wildly, and use small words 'cuz we’re stoooooooooopid…
Well, I suppose since you apologize that makes it alright? :rolleyes:
You, you, you, - it’s all about you, isn’t it? What about MY needs, huh?
We have STUDS! Yeah! The girls can all get married now!
Uh… and just what are you guys nattering on about? Frankly, I just don’t think you losers have what it takes to unleash armageddon.
I can’t help but think this could be worked into an Abbot and Costello type schtick - sort of like “Who’s on First?” You don’t know but we know that you don’t know that you know what we don’t know which you know…
“Honey, I didn’t want to hit you and break your jaw but you forced me to when you didn’t serve dinner fast enough…”
Well, in that case we’ll have to find someone other than Dubya. Can’t use Condi Rice either - she’s “but a woman”. Hmm… Why don’t you just send us a few suggestions?
No, I don’t. It’s like reading a ransom note written with alphabet soup - very murky.
What, the US Marines have gone into stealth mode in Iraq or something? “Masked”?
Huh?
Why, you need some dental work done?
Huh? Well, I suppose we could ask the British Commonwealth to restore the Empire, and the Turks to take charge of the Ottoman Empire territory again - is that what you mean by “old borders”?
Huh? Is this another Abbot and Costello thing?
Let’s see, you don’t want an international delibrative body, but you want to use an international delibrative body to decide and express this? Is it just me, or is there some disconnect here?
In other words, we not only want to destroy your cities, rape your women, and enslave your men, we also want more of your money. This is about the only part of this missive that makes any sense to me at all.
Because we hate being ignored more than anything!!! Look at me! Look at me!
Where’s my flyswatter?
But murdering civilians, women, and children is OK, right? I mean, you wouldn’t want to commit immoral murder, right?
WTF? Is this guy smokin’ something?
Yes, well, these characters have spent a lot of time in caves themselves, I guess they’d know a lot about that, right?
Maybe we can send you Martha Stewart and she can give you tips on how to decorate your spider-holes.
Oh, goody! I can get a head start on running like hell. Make note: wear jogging shoes to work…
Right… you want CNN to have a chance to set up the cameras. Look at me! Look at me!
Huh? Is this where a bunch of dancing terrorists break out in a chorus of “This is the dawning of the age of Aquariuuuuuuuuus…”
Huh?
What? Oh…Saudia Arabia with Mecca and what’s-that-other-place? Those are big enough to be called “cities”?
Right… the US soldiers in Iraq are holograms…
Oh! Oh! We have been called pigs. Oh! The pain! The pain!
Are you done yet?
OK, now he’s done.
I have printed this missive out in full on a piece of paper. I am in the smallest room of my house, completing a daily bodily function. This “e-mail” is before me. Shortly it will be behind me. After that, it will pass from the world of daylight into the “cave of darkness” a.k.a. “septic tank”
I don’t think I think like a terrorist, but I recognized some time ago these guys are not operating from the same value system we are.
I can’t say what would have an equal symbolic weight for these guys. It would not surprise me if they tried hitting the Pentagon again - Al Qaeda seems to hammer away at a target multiple times. Such at the WTC being bombed in 1993 and 2001. So I would expect the Pentagon to have at least an attempt.
Otherwise… well, how do you get inside these guys’ heads? What symbolizes a big city? Look for what images appear in movies and broadcasts - because these guys obviously watch those things. In Chicago - probably the Sears tower or the Hancock building, more likely Sears because it’s so freakin’ tall. In St. Louis the Arch, in Seattle the Space Needle… in LA what? Apparently there were some plans to attempt an attack on LAX, but who really knows?
And, if they can’t get a Big Target they might settle for smaller ones. Or just figure a way to shoot down lots of airliners simultaneously - the descending carnage could do plenty of damage, given the proximity of airports to populated areas.
Again, the problem is trying to figure out what’s important to them. Very hard to do when their motivations are so alien to our way of thinking.
Times Square New Years Eve?
Superbowl ?
He has also claimed that on Nov 20, 13 US soldiers were killed in Afghanistan; that on Nov 21, five more US troops were killed there; and on Nov 22, 22 more US deaths PLUS the shoot-down of an American spy plane in Kabul.
There are also gems like an announcement on Dec 14 that, three days prior, an attack on an American base in Iraq left 300 US soldiers dead – and he punctuated it with a comment that this was “sure information.” The same message claims that Bremer was killed on Dec 13 during an attack in the Green Zone – but in all fairness, he admits that that report was unconfirmed rumor.
So, whether or not this character has some connections, I think it’s a pretty safe bet that such messages are pretty much propaganda.
And I fail to see how he has been proven to be “on the money” with this email since his website has been warning muslims to get out of the US since Nov 24 ("this is the last and finla warning to all muslims living in the US to leave very very soon. and we will wait and see who will win this war Mr.bush and the rest of your gang.)
Moved to IMHO, since we’re speculating.
-xash
General Questions Moderator
See, to my mind the symbolism is important, but so too is loss of life - especially after 9/11. They’ve seen this big thing that they did and they want to do something on the same scale again.
I’ve thought, since shortly after the 9/11 attacks that subways are a target. If you can get suicide bombers on them in major (and/or not so major) cities with powerful enough explosives, then have that explosion when the train/trains are below a major part of the city you’ve done a couple of things: first, if that’s a major way for people to commute in that city, you’ve stranded people in the city and some underground. For those cities where it’s not as widely used (Atlanta, for example), you still potentially end up with problems if the explosives are powerful enough and you time them right.
But that’s just my thoughts - I’m not a terrorist and I don’t understand how they think. Perhaps the symbolism is the important part.
originally posted by Broomstick:
I have printed this missive out in full on a piece of paper. I am in the smallest room of my house, completing a daily bodily function. This “e-mail” is before me. Shortly it will be behind me. After that, it will pass from the world of daylight into the “cave of darkness” a.k.a. “septic tank”
.
.
Surely that’s unfair to your rectum? I wouldn’t put a nasty bit like that to MY bottom…