He doesn’t in this video, but he has in past videos involving the fit and finish of the Tesla S.
Agreed. It’s like driving your smart phone. Fucking ridiculous.
I don’t thnk I’ve voiced this before but there is less difference in an EV between mundane performance and blistering speed as compared to an ICE car.
The Dodge Demon is a 10 second assembly of full-out racing parts and differs greatly from a Dodge Dart. It is priced accordingly. A Model 3 is not much different than Tesla’s fastest car from a parts perspective and doesn’t need a large price difference. We could be driving the EV equivalent of Dodge Demons for little more than the cost of a Dodge dart.
The video notes that the difference between the base range car (~220mi) and the top of the range car (~350mi) is just short of $10K. I believe that’s down to the batteries. The only other physical options are larger/nicer wheels. So $35K (base) to near $50k (long range, loaded).
Except for the provable fact that design of the Bolt started in 2012, it was previewed in 2015, and went on sale in late late 2016. Sure, that’s “the next model year,” in Elon-speak.
And VW plans to compete with purpose-designed EVs starting in the 2020-2025 timeframe, some of which have been under development for a couple years now. But sure, that’s “the next model year,” in VW clean-diesel speak.
the Bolt was a new platform for GM. You could say it took longer than that for any research they did into a totally new car. But that’s different than kicking out next year’s model of an existing car.
My point was that options can be duplicated by other manufacturers. Other car makers are watching what Tesla does and will incorporate anything they think will sell in their cars just as phone makers are watching Apple.
Fixed that for you
… I don’t know what I’m talking about.
Well GM yes. They now have the EV platform. Changes to “the next model year” are not so hard once you have the platform (and the supply/production chain for the platform) established. Scaling up production if demand indicated such would still be an issue though. They are up to selling nearly 2800 a month now. If sustained that’s running at 33K a year plus. (Sales have been trending up and were not on that track right out of the gate.)"Rumors" had their annual capacity at 25 to 30K with GM claiming that they could get to 50K if there was the need.
Suddenly building lots more, like how many Tesla is planning for, than that, they could not do in “the next model year.”
That said many others will in fact be pretty ready to be able to make options that Tesla proves demand for available “quickly” because they have been building their EV platforms and prepping the supply chains for years.
Question for those in this thread on the Tesla 3 wait list: how much delay will you tolerate before you start seriously looking at the Bolt, which based on reviews sounds pretty comparable to what the Tesla 3 is expected to be?
The insult is out of place in this forum, and considering you’ve been warned previously for insulting the same poster on the very same topic, you really ought to know better. Do not repeat this behavior.
I can see where they’re going with it. The car remembers your side mirror, seat position, and steering wheel profile when you walk up to the car. Why do you need dedicated buttons for all that? Autoheadlights generally work flawlessly these days, why do they need a button too?
Why bother with a dedicated knob for A/C and vent controls when it’ll already be preconditioned for you before you step inside?
Things like wiper interval adjustments and the glovebox i’m scratching my head at, although I probably only access the glovebox a few times a year on my current car.
Nobody who can plunk down a $1000 deposit on a future $45k car (you *have *to get the autopilot and glass roof/premium sound) is lacking reliable daily transportation. And you don’t save any money buying a Bolt over a cheaper gasoline car with good MPG. If you want to save money, in fact, you should buy a used Prius…remember the discussion we had in another thread? A gen 3 prius isn’t sexy, and it has anemic acceleration…but it’s a sensible, economical vehicle. Kind of how people will see the Bolt. Except that GM doesn’t have Toyota’s history for quality, and you have to pay more than $25,000 for a new one. (there are a lot of incentives so it can be a lot less than sticker)
So I bet all the reservation holders will hold out. In my case, I’m going to wait until the second model year when they’ve fixed all the major issues and gotten the production rate to the point that you can buy a model 3 whenever you want.
If the bolt was $10k cheaper, maybe. But I’ll probably just continue driving my current car instead for another year or two. In the event that my current car broke down during that time, I’d really consider leasing the Bolt until either Tesla has their act together, or more compelling EVs are available (Volvo?).
A lot of it also hinges around the tax rebate- if that gets scrapped, I have no real major incentive to buy a Model 3 right away. I’d normally prefer to wait a year or two for them to iron the bugs out.
curious why you’d expect the Bolt to be $10,000 cheaper.
Front-wheel-drive. Macpherson strut front suspension. Torsion beam rear suspension. No dedicated supercharging network. No hardware for adaptive cruise control. 0-60 times about a full second longer.
The purpose of dedicated buttons is ease of use. I have autoheadlights and routinely turn them on at dusk or dawn when the sun is in everyone’s eyes and I want extra visibility. Also when it’s raining out.
I’ve had auto climate control on a car and HATED it. I was always changing the temp control. Remote climate control is a great “techie” option I would also enjoy but that’s a separate issue from ease of use.
The thing is, we’re talking about a handful of controls added to the car that makes things easier to use. I understand the need to stand out and be the car of the future but most people drive every day.
Previously I made a point about the potential distraction this can cause a driver and it’s hardly limited to Tesla. It’s risen to the level of the NHTSA. They’re looking into standards for ease of use.
I have to wonder where these screens fit within current laws aimed at cell phones and other remote devices. It’s against the law to handle a phone or GPS while driving in many places.
The nice thing about touch screens is that it’s all software driven so voice commands are the natural extension of the screen. I can see a standardized command list agreed to by all manufactures.
that doesn’t reduce cost.
Irrelevant for 99.9999% of on-road driving.
sounds more like “it’s not a Tesla.”
Apparently I was under the impression that things like “power”, “vehicle handling/stability”, and “ability to take on roadtrips with little inconvenience” , are somehow metrics worth evaluating when deciding to purchase a vehicle, but I guess all those things just get dismissed out of hand. Carry on.
Hey, I asked. The answer is appreciated.
For some it may indeed be the badge more than anything else. I readily admit that that is one reason I would conversely shy away from the Tesla … it screams announcing what it is and announcing that one is part of something and I prefer being … understated. Not crazy about the name “Bolt” for the same reason. I do not think reacting to what the car is interpreted as saying about you is a poor reason.
If someone expects to drive long distances along a Tesla supercharger corridor then that network is a very pragmatic reason… And if commuting in a car with a 0-60 of 5.6 seconds is much more appealing than in one with a 6.5 second one … well you accelerate more aggressively than most of us do but such is your taste. It also has a higher top speed; that is of significance to some too. (The pep number I’d care most about would be the 30-50 number … and I think either of these cars outperform anything else I’ve driven there.
I very much understand the wanting to be “future proofed” to being able to upgrade to more autonomous features as they become available.
I also think the Bolt looks nice but looks “practical” and not anywhere near “sexy.” That may matter to some also.
The cars are comparable and the Bolt apparently quite impressive but they are far from identical.
I think I’ve said it before in this thread (if not others), I’m convinced that the vast majority of people who haven’t yet bought an EV just simply assume that this is a problem.
For the vast majority of drivers, it isn’t. People need to stop thinking of superchargers as gas stations, because for probably 95% or more of your driving, they are not. Your home is your gas station. For long-range EVs, you only need superchargers if you are making road trips of a few hundred miles or more, or you’re an idiot who doesn’t charge at night when you need to.
There are more CCS chargers than there are Tesla Superchargers. The only difference is that CCS chargers are clustered around areas in which people actually drive most of the time, and Superchargers are spaced out on freeways where people take road trips.
If you’re spending a lot of time taking road trips, then frankly EVs probably aren’t a good choice for you, period. But if you’re like most people and do the vast amount of your driving within 50 miles of your home, having Superchargers on I-80 between Winnemucca and Salt Lake City is something you will never, ever care about.
We clearly disagree on what constitutes a problem in people’s minds. Spending a lot of time taking trips isn’t the problem. Having to plan out the trip is the problem. If I want to drive from Key West to Anchorage there is no planning involved with an ICE car. Get in and go. With an EV it becomes a huge deal. Nothing changes if it’s just a trip to the next state over or even from one end of the state to the other. I routinely travel more than 300 miles on a weekend trip.