Is that representative of a typical American company?
And how many actually carry on a daily basis ?
I have no idea.
None. We work in Maryland. The four Virginians are the ones with carry permits; those permits are (for now) useless in Maryland.
Which you (hopefully) agree answers Magiver’s seminal inquiry re:the number of designated armed “journalists” ?
I mean, they could have run a scenario where two gunmen assault a fortified position festooned with barbed wire, MG nests and anti-personnel mines but… yeah.
Now that you know the answer to your question the next question is how many people in a company can get their CCW if there is an obvious threat to their safety. The answer is ALL OF THEM. they could have installed a secured Lexan shield (like that found in banks and gas stations) and also an interior safe room to protect their employees.
The French did nothing to protect these people. The only person to come to their rescue came armed with a stick. They stepped over his body on the way to a one-sided gun fight.
Yeah, if only we’d had the balls to drown our country in handguns and send our murder rate through the roof, just in case (guns which, BTW, the Charlie team wouldn’t have owned anyway). An armed society is a polite society ! Guns could have prevented this ! Like they prevented Sandy Hook and Aurora and Fort Hood and waaaiiiit a minute.
Amusingly, you pick three examples that are not remotely useful to,proving your point. As a Connecticut elementary school, Sandy Hook was a “gun free school zone,” a regulation respected by teachers and school staff but not by Adam Lanza. Aurora, Colorado permits business property owners to exclude armed patrons, and the movie theater did just that – an admonition respected by all except the James Eagen Holmes.
Fort Hood similarly does not permit armed soldiers, except for M.P.s, a regulation observed by soldiers carefully, except for one Major Nidal Malik Hasan.
Why would it send the murder rate through the roof? In every case you listed the person committing the murder could have killed more people by running them over with a car and then flee the scene in the same vehicle.
And as Bricker pointed out, the events you listed were done in gun free zones which made targets out of those killed. At best, in a society with armed police, a citizen is 15 minutes away from help if attacked and that’s a generous number. We have every right to protect ourselves.
And yet the point still stands.
Rounding right the hell up, France has 700 homicides on a bad year. That’s 700 metric, which is about two to two point five Baltimores imperial. If we boasted the US murder rate, it’d be 4.200. Now I’ve always sucked at math, but I’m like 60% sure the difference between these two numbers is higher than 12.
So, with all due respect to Magiver’s acumen and tact, a funny story about motes and beams comes to mind.
Not that his point stand anyway. Handguns are strictly controlled in France, but permits are available, including concealed carry provided one can justify a need for it to the cops, and “My office has been firebombed and I’ve received death threats” more than fits the bill. Charlie Hebdo’s cartoonists just didn’t care for that “solution”.
Oh and the overwhelming majority of our cops are armed, BTW. We even have actual, FAMAS toting military personnel patrolling the city. This particular cop wasn’t - do meter maids typically carry in the US ? Honest question, I have no idea. Regardless, I don’t believe it would have made much difference had he been, considering the circumstances.
Oh well that changes everything, considering the attack was over in less than 5 (which was still long enough for a police vehicle to get to the scene and exchange gunshots with the shooters as they were making their getaway).
Paradropping commandos on mini-bikes would have done the trick, though !
I don’t dispute that. So do we. Our way seems to work better, on the whole.
there were 2 officers at the scene. They’re both dead.
They did send in paratroopers in the next day. Of course that was after the coroner hauled off the dead bodies the day before. We call that “a day late and a dollar short”.
Yes, you are disputing it. Your way guaranteed the deaths of all those people including the officer responding to the scene. There was never anybody coming to their rescue.
In my state we have the ability to train and license people to carry guns and defend themselves. Given the same scenario of death threats it would have been very easy to provide those workers with the means to do so. The only real means of defending themselves.
According to the most recent statistics I could find, over 700 people in the US were beaten to death with hands and feet, and over twice that number killed with cutting instruments, several hundred by blunt instruments and another 800 or so by “other weapons or weapons not stated”.
While some unknowable number of murders wouldn’t have happened if guns were heavily restricted in the US, the numbers suggest the US has a violence problem, not a gun problem per se.
Parking ticket cops always come in pairs. One knows how to read, the other how to write.
Your point being ?
Also vastly improves the not-death chances of the husband caught cheating, the guy confronting the angry drunk at the bar, the carjackee, the pizza delivery guy mistakenly bringing a double pepperoni to the home of the paranoid geezer with undiagnosed dementia, the riot cop overseeing the less-than-peaceful protest, the thrill-seeking kid breaking into Daddy’s mystery box, the depressed teenager…
And I already told you. Cops did come “to the rescue”. And the journalists could have availed themselves of guns had they wished to. They didn’t. Of course, as you’ve amply demonstrated in the past that you were about as reasonable and susceptible to facts as a singularly ornery mule with its testicles stuck in a briar patch, I don’t expect you to change your mind one iota.
[QUOTE=Lumpy]
According to the most recent statistics I could find, over 700 people in the US were beaten to death with hands and feet, and over twice that number killed with cutting instruments, several hundred by blunt instruments and another 800 or so by “other weapons or weapons not stated”.
[/QUOTE]
That’s… carry the seven… 3.500 or so, out of the ~17.000/annum ? 1 in 4.8ish ? Interesting coincidence. That’s also the factor of difference between the US and the French (and British, and German…) murder rates.
But I’m just being petty, I know, and that wasn’t really my point or goal. Nor have I any interest whatsoever in participating in yet another pointless debate slash talking point parrot-a-thon about guns in America. Mostly because Iiiii really don’t give a shit. Not the one. Your country, your problem.
If **Magiver **could keep the grand, ignorant and insensitive proclamations about *my *country to a minimum however, that’d be just swell.
Funny, the gun rights advocates on this board have had the opposite effect on me - and I grew up hunting and served in the military. Outside of those uses, I just don’t see a benefit to them in a modern society.
Police cannot protect people from attacks by terrorists and your belief that people have the right to defend themselves is all talk.
:rolleyes: If someone intends to kill another then the absence of a gun does not change that.
Well we’ll just ignore your rants against the US then shall we? The thread is about a simulated attack of 2 people with guns against one which has an obvious conclusion just as it does if 2 attackers face a multitude of guns. If you feel it’s insensitive to point out that the cartoonists didn’t stand a chance and the police are useless in such a situation then I don’t know what to tell you. Move to an imaginary country where people don’t go apeshit over cartoons and nothing can be used as a weapon to kill people.
Mostly true. And yet besides the point. Here’s the point, spelled out for you : changing the whole framework of society and making it orders of magnitude more dangerous in order to “protect people from attacks by terrorists” is retarded.
Which has nothing to do with what I said. You really need to work on which mindless bulletpoint matches which argument, you can’t just pick one at random and hope it’s gonna work. F-, see me after class.
Where have I ranted against the US ?
I don’t need to. I feel perfectly safe, carrying nothing more threatening than a small Bic lighter. Do you ?
(not that it needs changing, because, *again *again : they could. have had. guns. if. they’d. wished to.)
Bic lighters are great for lighting candles. Best of luck to you.
I’m pretty on board with what you’re saying here.
Let’s face it, the “armed civilian stops terrorist attack” is going to be exceedingly rare.
But when you look at the number of times you get guys like Zimmerman trying to play the hero there’s a very definite loss - not to mention that lots of people that carry are NOT going to be careful or rational, that carrying is going to make you a target in some instances, that a improperly handled gun is a danger to all around you - not to mention how many kids find a loaded gun with disastrous results - all of which you can’t eliminate due to human nature.
Ya don’t stay wealthy very long if you go around buying your own groceries all the time, you know.