Nope, you’re wrong. “Willfully” doesn’t mean what you want it to mean. “I forgot” is, in fact, an excuse (if it’s credible) that can dispel criminal negligence.
And you continue to ignore the question–at this point I believe deliberately because you’re enjoying playing games–why is the law not applied the way you say it must be? Why are all these people acquitted, or the case not pursued at all?
Did you actually read the linked article that described (in very sad detail) how ‘automatic behaviours’ actually led to these tragic childhood deaths? :rolleyes:
It’s NOT like forgetting to lock the pool gate. It’s NOT like checking your mirror before changing lanes, or turning off the stove before leaving the house.
Sure, there might be x% of parents who intentionally leave their child in a car hoping they will die. And they need to be prosecuted unto the full extent that your laws allow.
But my heart churns for the vast majority of mums or dads who will never forgive themselves for their forgetfulness. Their marriages will invariably break down. They will suffer interminable depression. They will never have a good nights sleep again. They will never see another child in the street without wondering, “What if…”
Criminalising these people on top of their already overwhelming guilt and despair does nothing to make things better. No healing for them, their families, their communities or society in general. Way to make a lose-lose situation even more pathetic. 
Yes I did, not that it’s relevant.
It is if you choose to make it so. Do you ever forget to close your car door? It’s automatic. And checking the backseat can become automatic too, so you don’t actually have to remember to do it.
I hope your heart can also churn for the child.
People make mistakes and accidents happen, all of which cause huge remorse and regret. There are no guarantees of safety, and no knowledge that our children won’t die because of something we did or failed to do. Children will be lost, get into things they shouldn’t, and generally get into serious trouble, sometimes because of parents leaving things accessible, etc. But a child being left in the back seat is something that should not happen ever.
I think this one by the Washington Post is extremely relevant: Fatal Distraction
That’s the one I’m referring to, not the OP’s link. Read it.
I think you miss the point.
The people who this happens to have already been trained…but unfortunately it is often in a different routine.
They are trained to go to work, drive a particular route etc.
And then your point holds, that is all automatic and they don’t have to think about it so the brain allows for that and devotes the higher functions to looking for sabre tooth tigers.
The fact that the child is in the back seat is relegated way down the order.
It really is like they don’t exist.
And thus tragedies happen to good and clever people and they no more deserve further punishment than a lighting strike victim.
They are like you, me and anyone else. To think otherwise makes you a slightly more dangerous person than me.
You see, the reverse is also true. Many a parent will find themselves pulling into the daycare centre on the way to work and then realise the child is actually staying with grandparents that day. The size of the error is exactly…note…EXACTLY! the same. The consequences, sadly, are not.
I assumed that was what you meant and actually read it some time ago, and it is indeed heart-wrenching. When I say it’s not relevant I mean that while it explains the behaviour, it does not excuse it.
I cannot read those stories, too heartbreaking.
I too think it can simply be avoided if one trains themselves to check for the baby before they leave the damn car. When I had babies i knew accidents were waiting to happen through my forgetfulness and inattention. I became almost hypervigilant to where they were at all times and their safety and well being were my first priority 24/7.
I can understand how a working parent in the rush of a morning routine of dropping off kids and babies can “forget” where they are going or what they are doing, yet to completely forget that there is a child asleep in the back seat and then not to remember again until the end of the day is grossly negligent. I can’t see any way around it, sorry.
I don’t think you get what I’m saying, but maybe I didn’t explain it very well. What I mean is checking the back seat of the car EVERY TIME you leave it, even if you “know” you’re alone. As I said with the mirrors - you automatically check when switching lanes, whether you’re driving to work, shopping, or anywhere else. Similarly, checking the back seat is NOT dependent on a morning routine, it’s just the thing that always happens before you close the door.
I think one reason this is striking such a chord with people is that we’ve all forgotten things, some of which are quite important. And we’ve all *almost *forgotten even more things. Some posters even said about how it could happen to them because they “almost forgot” their own baby. But there really isn’t such a thing as “almost forgetting”. Either you forgot or you didn’t. Now it may be that you only remembered at the last minute whereas you would have preferred to remember it sooner. But there’s a huge difference between remembering at the last minute and actually forgetting.
chela, I think that ignorance truly can be fought here.
The people looking into these issues have found solid reasons as to why it is not as simple as you suggest.
I know it runs against common sense but believe me, forgetting where you are and forgetting a child is in the back seat are really the same thing, you just feel that is wrong somehow. I understand that but it is misguided.
And training yourself to check every time you leave the car? fine. That is good practice and I’m sure helps avert many a tragedy but what happens when you park up, are just about to check, then right in front of you a fender-bender happens? You get involved in that, you are out of your routine you MAY forget that final check. Not because you are negligent, just because you are human.
Sounds a bit unlikely? rare? Well, you are spot-on, but then so, thankfully, are the child deaths.
Exactly. I’m all too aware of my failings, yet that doesn’t lessen my responsibility.
I haven’t seen a cite that law is suspended if people say “I forgot.”
No, it’s fine. You explained it perfectly well. I know exactly what you mean.
The mirror analogy is a good one. It is certainly a routine for me and many others and yet I have still changed lanes without checking, then only realised afterwards.
I’ve been lucky…others aren’t. The reasons the mirrors don’t get checked is often because “something else” intervened and jogged me out of that routine.
Sounds trivial doesn’t it? and it is 99.9% of the time.
And yet the consequences of not checking my mirrors are massive, literally life-threatening…does that stop me, or every driver out there “forgetting” it every so often?
I never forget to check my mirrors when changing lanes, and if someone does change lanes without checking, and they cause an accident, they are liable.
How far can we take this “I forgot” thing. I once got a ticket driving home late at night after a long day at work. I was exhausted. On the way to my apartment at the time, there was a series of lights which blinked red at night, three in a row, then a fourth light which operated normally. The streets were quiet because it was late, and as I got to that stretch of lights, I noticed a police car behind me. I realized I had to be careful to do the stops right at the blinking reds (even though there were no other cars to be seen on any of thos roads), so I did it by the book – full stop. look both ways go, full stop, look both way, go. All four times. Only the fourth time the light wasn’t blinking it was solid. I’d gotten a brain lock and treated it like it was blinking. The cop lit me up and gave me a ticket.
Should it have been a legal excuse for me to say I just forgot the last light wasn’t blinking? Would that have worked with the judge? Would it have had any legal weight as a defense.
You have seen multiple posts highlighting the fact that “willful” is an element of criminal negligence. Failure to meet one of the elements of a crime means no crime has been committed.
You are asking for a cite that says forgetfulness is an excuse for a crime. However, excuses for crimes do not exist if there is no crime from which to be excused. You must first have a crime, by meeting all of its elements, before you can escape from that crime with an excuse.
Excuse and justification are two ways to negate a crime. I have provided cites and analysis showing there is no crime. So, before we continue, I ask you to provide a cite and analysis showing these facts make a crime. Until you prove there is a crime, we need not discuss theories of excuse and justification. The ball is in your court.
I agree that you are misguided if you equate completely forgetting a child to be the same sort of brain fart as if you left your salami and cheese sandwich in the car. Not the same, sorry. I may be forgetful but i will always remember that I have a child I am responsible for no matter where I am or what I am doing. No matter where she is or what she is doing, it is my responsibility not to forget her, not fail her in such a colossal way.
They may be liable, but liable for criminal negligence?
That’s a traffic violation, a strict liability offense, not criminal negligence. So, your mental state is irrelevant.
If you know the baby is in the car, then forgetting it is willful. For it not to be willful, you would have to have never had any knowledge that the kid was in the car, not just knew and “forgot.” I have seen no cite that it’s legal to bake a baby in a car if you say “I forgot.”
People cannot willfully forget things.
Well I don’t know what else to say.
As has been linked elsewhere, the best minds in the business will tell you that leaving a sandwich and a baby in the car can be caused by EXACTLY the same type of brain fart.
The importance of the baby may well put it further up your list of priorities and therefore LESS likely to forget it but, the mechanism is just the same.
Yours is a common response because…hey! it is scary to think otherwise isn’t it?
OK, rest well in the knowledge that it is unlikely to happen to you, it is very rare and maybe you are super vigilant and so are doing things to reduce the risks even further, good for you.
Doesn’t make you infallible, no-one is, being aware of that and acknowledging it actually makes you less susceptible.
Here’s a thought, Dio. Go to fucking law school. Once you’ve done that, all of the people here on the dope who actually understand US law will stop laughing at you.