Thank you, first amendment, that will be all.

The BBQ Pit
1

Right, OK, I’m pissed off. I am - and this is unfortunate enough in the best of times - a resident of New Jersey. Right now, you can’t even get into a freaking post office to buy stamps because they’re all closed in my area. Every strange envelope that comes into my office is greeted with fear and suspicion. It looks like we’re going to get stuck with Jim McGreevey as our next governor, a man who is so oily I get acne just from watching him on TV. And the FUCKING YANKEES WON.

So I’m not in the best of moods to begin with. Then I hear a story on the local news last night. A gentleman of Arab descent, a wealthy man, called a limousine service to order, one would imagine, a limousine. The man’s last name is “Das,” and apparently he was attempting to communicate the name to the woman who took his call and was having difficulty with it.

So, reasonably enough, he spelled it out, using words to indicate the letters (you know, "D as in David, A as in Adam, and so on). Except, showing tragic stupidity, he said instead "D as in Destruction, A as in America, and S as in States (or “Sam,” they’re not clear on that last one).

Here’s the thing: they fucking arrested him. The person on the phone thought this was disconcerting, and called the police. The police, evidently operating in some parallel universe where saying something stupid is illegal, hauled this guy in and charged him with disorderly conduct and harassment; he spent the night in jail and is now out on bail.

What the fuck fuck fuckity fuck? FIRST of all, there is nothing to prove that this wasn’t simply an unfortunate set of random words used by a person whose command of English may or may not have been perfect. Even if it was intentional, though, it’s not a goddamn crime! The idea that you could be sent to prison for verbally expressing a sentiment - even as stunningly unpopular a sentiment as this - is shocking to me. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, isn’t this why we HAVE a first amendment? To protect unpopular speech JUST LIKE THIS? How dare my government, the people I pay to represent me, use their power to suppress one of the rights on which this country was founded?

I would understand if, in response to this incident, the FBI decided to take a closer look at Mr. Das, perhaps an investigation into possible terrorist connections. And I think that he has proven himself to have not a lick of common sense or sympathy, and ought to be treated as such. But he did not deserve to be arrested, and by putting him in jail - even for a night - the government of New Jersey has put itself firmly in opposition to the precepts that our government depends upon.

So, in conclusion, to the people responsible for this mind-numbingly stupid decision, I say: Fuck you. That’s “F” as in “Frank,” “U” as in “Umbrella…”

2

Granted, nobody should go to jail for saying something stupid, and if the Middle Eastern guy had spelled out his name on a soapbox on the street, the law couldn’t touch him. However, he said this on a phone, and while IANAL, I am positive there are laws against threats (granted, very loosely used here) made over the phone. Frankly, he deserved a night in jail just for being excessively stupid.

3

Strike the first line of that last post.

4

OK, gobear, this is your post without the first line:

So you think that whole “free speech” concept is bad? Do tell.

5

Where did he make a threat? He was spelling his name, and used D as in destruction?

That’s not a threat-it’s stupidity, but it was probably the first word that popped into his head?

6

::sigh:: My shift ends soon, so I don’t have time to go over it myself, but could we please get someone in her to explain that the First Amendment exists to keep THE GOVERNMENT from censoring free speech and has nothing to do with PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS or, say, limo companies, being freaked out by a poor choice of words?

If it was construed as a threat, they were perfectly justified in calling the cops. I’m not saying the parties involved weren’t dummies all around, but I don’t see any rights being violated here.

7

No, Beelzebubba, you are wrong. If you have ever read any of my posts, you wopuld know that I am a rabid free speech advocate. If the guy had spouted off on a soapbox in public, there would be no way for the law to touch him. A Middle Eastern man spelling out his name as Destruction America States over the phone could be construed as a threat or intimidation and SHOULD be investigated by the police. Locking him up just for that is probably wrong, but frankly, he ought to spend a night in jail just to teach him not to be a freakin’ moron.

8

Juniper -

Um, yeah, I didn’t complain about the private limo company. I complained about the fact that the GOVERNMENT - which, as you note, is not permitted to restrict free speech - placed this man under arrest and charged him with a crime. For his speech. Please explain to me in what way this does not violate his rights.

9

The government cannot restrict POLITICAL speech, but it restricts speech all the time. For instance, someone could be prosecuted for libel and slander. You can be prosecuted for making threats. You can be arrested for JOKING about bombs at an airport. You can be arrested for falsely shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theater. You can be arrested for verbal harrasment, which is what the OP said is what the New Jersey man is charged with.

10

Actually, I’ve read a number of your posts, and I know that. The question was more a jab at you, hoping you’d clarify.

Wait, should anyone be locked up, or just those of Middle Eastern descent, for using the words “Destruction” and “America” in a sentence over the phone? If I call up the local sandwitch shop and order a “Steak Bomb with American”, but the guy has a hard time understanding me and only hears “bomb” and “American”, should I go to jail? Am I communicating a threat? Am I a moron for ordering a steak bomb in these times of crisis?

Frankly, I find the idea that anyone should “spend a night in jail just to teach him not to be a freakin’ moron” reprehensible. Also, putting some one in jail because they used a couple of words you find disagreeable, and then stretching the law to cover your ass (not you personally, gobear).

11

Let’s say that I hate Americans (being one, I feel safe using this example) I am absolutely free to say I hate Americans, I can publish a newsletter dedicated to hating them, I can organize an “All Americans Must Surrender to the Taliban” rally, and the law can’t touch me. But if I call your place of business and say, “Goodbye, American,” that constitutes harassment.

If you still don’t get it, subsitute “Muslim” for “American” in the above sentence. If a guy named Ken calls a place of business, talks to a Muslim clerk, and spells his name Kill Every Nigger, would that not warrant police intervention?

And the “night in jail for stupidity” comment was not meant seriously. Mind you, I’d put people in jail for honking their horns at a red light, so it’s a good thing I’m not in charge of writing the laws.

12

And, yes, a Middle Eastern guy spouting off words like Destruction America States to a clerk ought to be checked out by the authorities more than a Swede making the same comments. It seems insanely liberal-minded to ignore the one datum we know that the terrorists have in common.

13

I don’t disagree with the “investigation” bit, it’s the “night in jail” bit that had me concerned. Sorry I didn’t recognize it as facetious, my toungue-in-cheek detector is broken.

That said, though, I do enjoy a steak bomb with american cheese. Now I have to wonder if, instead of the sandwitch, the cops are going to show up at my door and haul me off to jail. I don’t worry about getting smacked with an airplane, but this sort of thing could really happen to me.

Was the guy an idiot? Yes. Should “the incident” be investigated? Certainly. Hauled off to jail? Jesus fucking Christ, no.

Just my thoughts.

14

I’m sorry, but it seems like something is missing. Was he screaming at the lady on the phone? Did he say other things to her that scared her as well? Your local press, in reporting this story, may be leaving out important details.

If the extent of the conversation was him spelling out his name as you’ve shown above, then it is ridiculous he was arrested. However, it is likely that there is more to it.

15

Well if this guy is a terrorist, he is not a very good one. What kind of terrorist blows his carefully constructed cover by spewing off his politics to some dispatcher… :rolleyes:

16

My mistake, storyteller. I read your post too quickly. Please carry on.

17

I believe that’s supposed to be “Foxtrot Uniform”…:D:D

18

What carefully constructed cover? The men who flew airplanes into the Pentagon and the WTC were very sloppy in covering their tracks. After all, they told their flight instructors in FL that they were more interested in learning how to control an airliner in mid-flight than in learning to take off or land.

I’m not saying that the guy in NJ is a terrorist; he’s obviously just a jerk. But the idea that the terrorists are crack undercover operatives gives them way too much credit.

19

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20

How can I be sure that this is not some Urban Legend?