Apparently, the New Frontiersman is not a quality mainstream journalistic entity. Rorsharch doesn’t know about the details, other than “Whatever it is, Ozy is behind it”. He learned “it” was the squid or Dr. Manhattan’s energy, only after speaking to Ozy.
I think about the first 9/11 truther who felt he had evidence that 9/11 was in an inside job. He probably thought long and hard about the ramifications of his discovery. Was revealing the truth worth bringing down the administration and perhaps the government?
We know how that went. If anything Rorsharch’s journal would have less credibility. Besides the vagueness, the journal was from a psychotic escaped convict (to the world at large). Hardly a reliable witness. Even Ozy alludes to this after the conclusion.
You got all the relevant facts and based on them, I think a small fraction of the population would believe it, namely those who take the New Frontiersman seriously as a legitimate political newspaper(the same audience who take Freerepublic.com seriously on the internet). I suspect single digits percentagewise.
I suspect the rest of the population would dismiss it as a disturbed series of ramblings from a famous, psychotic nutjob. And it’s arguable how famous rorschach really is in 1985 of the watchman universe, other then among the criminal underworld who hates his guts.
The only thing I can think of that would change the scenarios painted above would be some indication of Ozy’s base in the Artic. If there was some directions to it, and the snow storm did not sufficiently destroy it (or Ozy didn’t which seems unlikely), I think it becomes a “truther” conspiracy theory.
I don’t think the publication of the journal would have much effect at all, and there’s no reason to think it would undo what Veidt had accomplished. With Rorschach gone, there wouldn’t even be any way to verify that the journal was real – it’s just some crazy book that came in the mail. If Veidt is capable of orchestrating the massive conspiracy/cover-up that leads to the fake alien invasion, it should be quite easy for him to handle the fallout from a negative story in the “New Frontiersman.”
Was the Antarctic retreat a secret? I don’t remember that. Even if it was, uncovering the retreat wouldn’t prove anything about the Big Conspiracy.
It wasn’t, in either the book or the movie canon. Doug Roth mentions flying down to “Karnak” specifically to interview Veidt in the Nova Express interview.
I tend to agree with the above posters that Rorschach’s journal wouldn’t have been taken seriously, given the general nature of the publication he submitted it to, and the fact that Veidt was far too careful to leave any loose ends. If Veidt was concerned he could simply have the journal stolen, or arrange for the New Frontiersman offices to suffer a devastating fire overnight, or similar.
It would be enough for the Russians and others to start looking into it. Hell, they probably wouldn’t even have to try find evidence or anything: in the Cold War mentality that’s going on, all they’d hear is that an American superhero who had previously worked with Dr Manhattan and Ozymandias says the whole “Manhattan watches us to make sure we behave” thing is hoax and with their hatred for Americans, they’d use that as an excuse to go back to how things were. Ozymandias, an American, did attack Russians aswell with his device* after all, so that’s justification for war, right there.
*or atleast in the movie he did, I never read the comic
Of course in the novel, the journal has already been rejected as the ravings of a loony and is only being reconsidered because of a major lack of content. For anything to come of it:
It must be published
It must be believed
Those who believe it must be in a position to do something about it
Those in a position to do something about it must be arsed to do it
Veidt’s new utopia seems fairly safe, but there is a chance that the questions raised could put a few cracks in the foundation. Given a few years it could do some real damage.
But then Ozymandias becomes the “common enemy” and the world remains safe while they’re settling his hash.
And I think it would be kind of a bombshell–don’t forget that Dan uncovered* the whole conspiracy, not just the obvious parts: stuff that’s independently verifiable like:
[ul]
[li]Employment records showing “Jimmy Olsen”, whatshername–Janie? and Moloch among others working for Ozy and getting cancer within x months of their employment.[/li][li]Employment records for the assassin.[/li][li]A bunch of data about that island that was blown up including employment records for all of the people there, purchase receipts for the teleportation stuff, the genetic research, the explosives…[/li][li]His blatant “insider trading” (more-or-less). His selling all his war based stuff and purchase of diapers, kid-friendly stuff RIGHT before he committed genocide…[/li][li]Hell, with Ozy’s ego, he probably had cameras on him when he murdered the Comedian and recorded a little confession to go with it.[/li][/ul]
We don’t know what of that Roarscach included in his journal–IIRC, he included some loose papers too, not just his journal. If he had printouts, so much the better, but even without that, there’s more than enough of a trail of evidence to pin the blame on Ozy
Keep in mind, we never see Ozy do anything all that wildly intelligent–his “super power” seems to be “Has a way of making people think he’s smarter than he is”. He never actually does anything smart except for the “I set it off 30 minutes ago” bit. Otherwise, he hires people to do the stuff that takes brains.
*And that was the proof to me that Ozy isn’t the genius he thinks he is: his sooper-sekrit password is his nickname? Oooh! Maybe he can use his birthday for other files!
I wouldn’t go quite that far; after all, the only reason he gets rich enough to hire all those scientists who build stuff for him is because Ozzy himself first whipped up a patentable invention for to finance Dimensional Developments with the profits. (In the comics, anyway; not, IIRC, in the move.)
Likewise, I don’t think we actually know who took point on inventing the first working teleportation device; he only ever says that “I researched genetics … Bubastis was an early success … and teleportation. Since Jon proved teleportation possible, why develop electric cars?” I guess that could mean he’d hired people to do it, but he’s pretty up-front about sharing credit for other breakthroughs later in the same conversation; creating a new life form that could fire off a psychic shockwave, for example, was explicitly a team effort, so why not likewise be explicit here?
The former, possibly – but while there’s a paper trail from their corporation to Pyramid Deliveries, there’s IMHO no documentation linking either any further in the comics; Dan cracks it as far up the chain as he can by reviewing the records, and then only learns of Ozzy’s involvement upon noting that Ozzy can call up PD’s financial information on his computer. There might not be anything written down; Veidt could just run PD through off-the-books cut-outs, with nothing independtly verifiable. (The movie, again, dumbs that down.)
Speaking of which, ditto for the assassin; yes, some freight coordinator at PD had one of his drivers hand the cash and instructions to Roy Chess, but Chess was never on the books. (Except in the movie.)
He never sold off any war-based stuff in the comics; one of his underlings mistakenly thinks he’s about to buy some war-based stuff, and immediately mentions that “we have never bought into munitions” – whereupon Veidt replies “Of course not.”
After reading this list of possible allegations, which could be in R’s journal in some form, I might elevate the level of conspiracy theory from 9/11 truther to JFK Assassination.
C’mon. It was the 80’s! Password security wasn’t what it is today!
But isn’t it funny that it was Ramses II? Even in the 80’s he knew a good password should have letters AND a number!:smack:
Of course the argument could be made that Adrian actually wanted Dan to find the information. The computer actually gives him a hint when he gets close. What kind of Super Genius does that?
Or one who’s super-power is “Make people think he’s a LOT smarter than he actually is.”
It’s my only kinda serious theory that the real reason he killed the Comedian is that he was butthurt because the Comedian wasn’t affected by his "“Make people think he’s a LOT smarter than he actually is.” power.
Because otherwise his murder of the Comedian makes no sense. Yeah, the Comedian just happened to stumble on the secret island. And when he wrote up his report on his mission, he certainly included the information he found (bunches of hippie-liberal artiste types in a commune, big creepy vagina-squid being bio-engineered, scientists and not much else). No possible reason to cover it up. But he certainly didn’t know about the connection to Ozzy. As far as everyone there knew, it was for a movie.
So…even if it DID make sense to kill the Comedian and it doesn’t: far better, given that the information’s already out there (as opposed to discrediting him: fake movies/pictures of him in a Sailor Moon outfit giving head to midgets in Nazi costumes or something) it makes zero–literally ZERO sense for Ozzy to kill him in a hand-to-hand fight. First, something could have gone wrong. He’s lucky the Comedian put all his guns away and didn’t have one at hand (which I don’t buy) but more importantly, secondly: why not just hire an assassin and have Eddie shot in the head from a couple hundred yards away, then create false documentation to link the killing to some unpopular group (those punks who killed Hollis for instance) and let Roarscach run amok chasing them?
I think you’re mistaken on two counts: IMHO the Comedian did realize what was going on at the island, and didn’t write up a report on it. That’s what Ozzy spells out when he’s monologuing to Nite Owl and Rorschach, and it tracks with what the Comedian is shown drunkenly blurting to Moloch: he doesn’t know Veidt’s behind it, but he knows what they’re up to and doesn’t want the government to find out.
Ozzy is, demonstrably, more dangerous than a hired assassin with a gun; a speeding bullet is just something for him to bat out of the air before hitting the guy with a disarming knockdown blow, just like a laser beam from Nite Owl or a stab attempt from Rorschach – or, for that matter, like a speeding bullet from the Silk Spectre, when she got the drop on him. But if Ozzy gets the drop on someone, then the fight plays out like it did in the comics: he could sight and catch a speeding bullet, but the other guy won’t get the chance to try, since, well, he’s just that danged fast.
Rorschach ran amok chasing a phantom mask killer with no prompting (and wouldn’t have even done that, if not for discovering the hidden crime-scene evidence of Eddie Blake’s secret identity). Ozzy’s real flaw was just not killing Moloch sooner.
No–I agree that…somehow…the Comedian, not a rocket scientist by any measure, figures out what’s going on on the island (how?? And if Eddie figured it out, there’s lots and lots of others who can/could too, especially with the impetus provided by the Rorschach’s Journal trail) and…bursts into tears? Nah. The only possible reason he would is (IIRC–I don’t have the GN here) that the Comedian DID link it to Ozzy and is crying from jealousy–that the “joke” that Ozzy’s gonna play on the world is better than anything Eddie could come up with. That would also be the only reason he wouldn’t include it in a report–he doesn’t want anyone else to know that Ozzy beat him. But if Eddie, a not-too-bright troglodyte can put it together and if Rorschach (who’s much smarter, but who’s stairs don’t go all the way to the top) can put it together, lots and lots of others can too.
No—we’re miscommunicating
I’m saying that there’s absolutely no reason that “the smartest man in the world” would risk ALL his plans just to personally hands-on murder Eddie. Rather than engage Eddie in a boxing match (which links him to the crime–DNA evidence, etc–he can’t be 100% sure that he won’t leave a clue), why not just goad/pay the TopKnots or someone (through a string of fake leads) to get a rifle and snipe the Comedian? There’s no possible motive whatsoever for Veidt to get his hands dirty and risk everything, EXCEPT low-grade, common revenge–which (his reputation claims) is far, far beneath him.
All of the major players knew Eddie’s ID. What Rorschach discovered was the Comedian’s cache of stuff, not his identity. Look at Eddie’s funeral. Everyone’s there. They all knew. Hell, look at the way that Rorschach questions (heh…‘Questions’ ) all the principles. He’s constantly referring to “Blake” as though they know. No character says “Blake was the Comedian? Wow!”
Disagree–if Ozzy had gotten some left-wing crazy to assassinate Eddie, Rorschach would never have gone to Moloch. Make the killing political and Rorschach begins looking for a “war-hero” killer, not a mask-killer.
(I think it’s cool that the book is so well done that 25 years later we can still debate motives/characters! )
