[ignorant]
What do 140’s have, gas pedals? I thought all single-engine planes were pretty much the same…
[/ignorant]
Hey, AV8R, this thread ain’t big enough for the both of us! 
You can see the throttle in the middle of the panel near the bottom here. It’s right next to the right yoke.
Granted, it works the same as the plunger, but this much better, IMO. You can control it much better than the plunger.
When I transitioned from the Warrior into a Colt, I had to get used to the “plunger” type throttle. It gave me a lot less trouble than I thought it would. I don’t think twice about it now.
I’m working now on improving my right-seat flying in the Warrior, which isn’t quite there yet. I’ve actually had to do it in a few minor pressure situations, and was fine. But I’m not comfortable there yet.
Geez, plungers, throttles, wings on top, wings on bottom…
Cripes, it flies, doesn’t it? Just show me where the darn controls are on THIS crate and please don’t scream when I confuse the mix for the throttle, OK? I hardly ever do that any more, and heck, you just have to shove it back in for the engine to quit coughing.
Hey, where you going? We haven’t taken off yet and you’re leaving…?
Seriously, folks, I fly both Cessnas and Pipers and can’t for the life of me see why folks get so bent out of shape over these things. Can’t say I prefer one over the other for all things - it depends on what sort of flying I’ve a mind to do. And what’s available.
Anyhow – took my first night flight in 3 years last Tuesday. Took a CFI with me, because I knew I was terrible rusty. Nice guy, he’s the fellow I finished my license under, knows me fairly well.
Well, took off, circled around east to get away from airport traffic and listen in to Gary’s ATIS prior to entering their airspace. I’m tootling along, he looks out the window, looks at me, looks out the window. “You’re circling.”
“Yep”
“You’re lost”
“Sort of.”
Looks at watch. “That didn’t take long - what, five minutes?”
“I know exactly where I am. That’s Southlake Mall down there.”
“Oh, I see - you know where you are, you don’t don’t remember where anything else is.”
“Yeah. Something like that.”
“OK, hotshot, let’s see you get unlost.”
I said I was rusty, didn’t? Well, after about an hour of repeating my Secret Mantra (It’s just like flying in the daytime, only darker) I got the hang of nighttime navigating again, found my way to and from three airports, and got some (eventually) very nice landings in. Very nice refresher, finished that last hour of Wings (gotta get the paperwork in), and a nice stretch of the flying muscles.
I also learned that deer really do freeze in a headlight (alright, landing light) but no harm done.
Ummm…
They don’t color-code those anymore? (throttle=black, mixture=red)
There was once a rumor that someone had actually figured out to texture-code the buggers, too (throttle=round, mixture=spiked)
Won’t mention prop (blue, knobbed) 
They do put a different texture on the mix vs. throttle, at least on all the Cessnas I’ve flown (six of 'em). But it’s almost inevitable that, at one point or another, a pilot will make that mistake. Not the best human factors engineering.
Better try not to have the “inevitable” happen during takeoff or landing…
My experience with most modern general aviation airplanes (anything manufactured in the last fifteen years let’s say) is that the controls are fairly well thought out.
However, when I learned to fly a 1956 Apache (twin prop) I was startled to find the following configuration of the engine controls:
Near my left knee was a small panel with a row of four identical metal switches. The two on the right turned the fuel boost pumps on and off. The two on the left were the magneto cutoffs!!!.
This meant that after every takeoff or go-around I had to VERY carefully turn off the boost pumps without killing the engines. My instructor watched me like a hawk EVERY time. I made doubly certain that I had the correct switches in view EVERY time before I reached to touch them. That scared me.
Piper has since improved the ergonomics of their cockpits.
There are a couple who still haven’t checked in.
New question - if I fly somewhere with a friend, and we split the PIC time (I fly up and he flys back), how do you all log it?
Assume both pilots are PP-ASEL and the aircraft is a 172 or something. No complicating factors like “Safety pilot” or anything.
I can see logging the actual amount of time you were PIC as PIC, that’s easy. But under the Total Time of Flight column, do you put the total time, including while you were not PIC?
I would think so, since the requirements for additional ratings are generally along the lines of “XXX total hours, XXX PIC hours”, which shows that the FAA considers there to be some value in flight time when you’re not PIC (Though I’m not sure exactly what that benefit is in all cases, heck I could be sleeping during that time).
So what do you all do?
I would just log the time I was clearly PIC.
I think the “non-PIC” time is intended for things like airplanes that require a second crew member, which would not apply to a C172 or similar SEL or SES.
ski, IIRC (it’s been 10 years since I was a CFI), you can log second-in-command time or Safety pilot time (SIC) as well when not PIC even in that situation. Under the various rules, the PIC is the “sole manipulator of the controls,” but that doesn’t mean that as SIC you cannot run the radios, adjust the instruments, etc. (or act as safety pilot when the other pilot is under the hood). So you can log that time, which will increase your base time, but it won’t count towards requirements (which is why they distinguish between PIC and other time).
There was a pilot school at Centennial Airport in Littleton, CO that used to stretch the FAR’s on pilot time logged, but (at the time) the FAR’s allowed what they did: The chief instructors were old retired Continental pilots that didn’t need to log time in their log books. So they sat in the back seat of a multi while two students (with their multis) sat up front. One student was under the hood (logging PIC as manipulator of the controls and logging instrument time), and the other was the safety, but also logged PIC because they agreed that that person was ACTING PIC. So, two students, both logging PIC, with an instructor in the back…This brought down the costs of multi-time enormously, and it gave these students tons of instrument time. They were applying for the big leagues with log books showing 500 hours total PIC, 150+ multi PIC, 100 IMC and 300+ hours simulator time…Much better than most CFI’s applying for the same jobs.
-Tcat
The dual-logging of PIC when you’ve got a safety pilot is well-documented on various aviation websites, and is most certainly permitted under the FARs due to the safety pilot being a “required crewmember”, at least that’s the consensus of everything I’ve read.
But as for the instructor sitting in the back seat (I presume they were pursuing their instrument ratings), that sounds like some kind of a violation to me. But maybe not - to fly under the hood does not require an instructor, or even anyone onboard holding an instrument rating, as long as you stay in VMC. So it seems the school may have been perfectly legit.
Oh yes, I think they were legit, but it sounds strange enough to make one wonder, no? Plus, they made enemies at Centennial, because they were essentially charging half of what everyone else was…So I think the FAA was contacted, but then I left aviation before I ever heard the outcome.
It was an interesting way to go about getting your career in aviation started. Normally you have to jump through the hoops like everyone else, but these guys created a short-cut. I mentioned the 300+ sim time, but I didn’t go into it. They would take these Instrument pilots and put them through 10 to 20 hours of sim time every week. People thought they were crazy because it was “just sim time.” But if you think about it, man, were those people prepared! 300 hours of Instrument approaches into Dallas, Chicago, LAX, Denver, etc…Those students aced practicals…All for $30 and hour, which, as you know, ain’t nuttin’ when compared to a plane and instructer.
I can’t even remember their name…I wonder if I could google it and come up with anything. I’ll try.
Take care-
-Tcat
I wouldn’t word it that those guys “created a short-cut”, I’d say they just did (for the most part) the smart thing. The sharing of PIC time is specifically recognized by the FAA (see the FAR FAQ at ftp://av-info.faa.gov/data/640otherfaq/pt61-17.pdf ) as acceptable. Certainly watching somebody else fly IFR approaches can be very valuable, as you get a different perspective and get to see what he did wrong (and try to do it better yourself). And who can argue that the more simulator time you get, the better?
You say that the students aced the practical test - that says to me that the way these students were trained was both a good way and also maybe something that the other schools should copy.
Just because most people end up jumping through hoops to get this level of training doesn’t make it any less valuable, or any less of a bad idea. To the contrary, it seems like someone’s actually put some thought into making a training program better, as opposed to just letting things stay the way they’ve always been.
The first sentence of my last paragraph is confusing. Please read it like this:
Just because most people end up jumping through hoops to get this level of training doesn’t make this new kind of training any less valuable, or any less of a good idea.
Thank you.
Now that there’s a thread to park these anecdotes in…
Joined up with the Breakfast Club for the $100 omlet option yesterday. Six people split between a Mooney and a Dakota and going to Monticello, IN the air was smooth as could be. It was that high overcast sort of weather, the clouds at about 10K but clear underneath and glare-free.
But this post isn’t really about the flying.
No, it’s about the courtesy “car” at the airport. No restaurant on the field at Monticello, so we borrowed the Suburban. It was a bright, construction-crew orange ornamented with rust and “White County” painted on the doors. I understand that you don’t normally lend out for free really high-class vehicles, it’s not like I was expecting a Rolls.
Anyhow, we put the back seat up and all six of us piled in. This was an old truck, and had those big bench seats that, back when I was in college, occassionally made appearances as sofas in dorm rooms. Not quite so cozy as the airplanes, but that’s not necessarialy a bad thing.
While one guy was trying to start the balky engine (of course, he’s an old auto mechanic, but the engine won’t start for him…) folks are noticing the windsheild is entirely frosted over. Time for the obligatory jokes about filing IFR and driving under the hood. Attempts to use the windshield wipers reveal two things. 1) windshield wipers are largely ineffective against solid frost and 2) the “off” switch for those things isn’t working. Mr. Skymaster hops out and uses his jacket sleeve to wipe at the frost while dodging the Wipers of Death and the two mechanics are trying to turn them off.
During all this, the rearview mirror fell off the window.
We get the windshield clear, the wipers more or less tamed, and off we go, rattling down country roads to the Sportman’s Inn. While en route we also get to discover that the windows are self-opening and must be periodically rolled back up. The wipers also give an occassional flick at random times, and Mr. Mooney (he’s driving) has to comment on that and poke at the off switch again. Mr. Dakota is thoughtfully holding the rearview mirror up, but he’s holding it at his eye level, not the level of Mr. Mooney who is a foot shorter than him. This is commented upon, and the crew spends a good ten minutes with the Art of Rearview Mirror Arranging. We did try just resting it on the dash, which worked until we hit a bump. This is a country road, remember. Lots of bumps.
We made it to the restaurant and piled out. The only reason we eat, of course, is to offset the fuel burned getting there so we don’t have to recalculate weight and balance.
It’s when the bill comes that things get interesting. You see, Mr. Dakota always tries to pay for the whole meal whenever he’s along, no matter how many folks are there or how much it costs. It used to be he just picked up the bill. Then other people tried to get it first. Then it moved to snatching it out of the waitstaff’s hands. Now, at the end of the meal, there’s this spontaneous pause, followed by a great scraping of chairs and the lumbering thunder of middle-aged feet racing to where the help is counting up the damages.
So, Mr. Mooney, Mr. Dakota, and Mr. In-Between-Planes are squabbling over the bill at the front desk. It’s all good-natured, but quite intense. Meanwhile, Mr. Student, Mr. Skymaster, and me are arguing about who leaves the tip. This is further complicated by us not knowing the final price on the bill, because three grown men are in the next room playing tag with it. I think the help wound up with a $15 tip (for some reason, despite our antics, we’re always welcomed back… wonder if that has something to do with it).
The bill is paid. We have to stop Mr. Dakota from going back and leaving ANOTHER tip (it has happened once or twice). We pile back into the Orange Monster, doors slamming, and Mr. Skymaster fishing the rearview mirror out from under the front seat. OK! Off we go!
The engine quit!
Obligatory rude comments about Mr. Mooney’s driving and skill as an auto mechanic. Suggestions in return about Mr. In-Between-Planes (another auto guy) getting out and pushing. More rude comments as how pulling on the steering wheel does no good, this thing does not have a best glide speed.
Got the thing running and off we go for real this time, rattling back over country roads again, thump, thump, thump.
Back at the airport, there’s still hardly any wind to speak of, which might be why the Dakota and the Mooney wind up deciding to use opposite runways. Which they didn’t realize (assuming the other guy was behind him) until they each got to their end of the runway. OK… well, as long as everyone takes turns no harm done. Just the downside of a no-wind morning.
An uneventful take-off and return. Which is how flying should be - uneventfully fun. But it makes for a boring post, so I’ll stop now.
Nice post Broomstick!
[takes bow]Thank you! Thank you! [throw kiss to crowd]
Stay tuned for more adventures and tell your pilot buddies.
Way cool. Nice to see an old-timer round here.
<i>:: Nit-pix::: AT-17? I thought the Bamboo Bomber was an AT-50?</i> ( Sky King’s original airplane for they young folks here. LOL) Or I am forgetting one? ??
Humm, so far 58 types
SEL - MEL - Inst. - Comm. - got them back when they were a separate lic. all the time.
Pipe-Line Patrol
Aerial Mapping
Pleasure
Owned three so far, One Luscombe 8-E and two Swifts, one 1946 GC-1A 85 HP with Beach Roby prop ( manual adjust with a small crank in the cockpit) and a 1949 GC-1B Temco.
Total time 10,000 +
A&P ( don’t use it)
Most time inC-150 (old) pipe line(1500 hrs +/-)
C-180 … 3500 hrs +/- aerial mapping
1970- C-310 -Tubro … 5500 +/- aerial mapping
A fair bit of 601 Aero Star time flying rock and roll show production people around.
and just stuff and such flying…
Well need to try to write up some of the things that happened over the years. Retired now for the last 10 years although I am legal still, just to broke to go play on my own. The Sport Lic. looks interesting. I have looked at some of the baby helio’s (choppers is what I did in the Army - Helicopter maint.) and some of the enclosed ultra-lights as just playing would interest me now. Can’t afford to travel like I did in the 601 and would rather use my motorcycle anyway.
Someone said “lotto” earlier — I can relate. LOL 
How to blow $8000/hr:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1873256518&category=26428
I don’t believe this one…