. . .and maybe Jr. will come back to his parents and say, “I wish I were never born!!!”
And once again, we wade knee-deep into all those phlisophical discussions that noone has seemed to be able to answer.
When does life begin? Is there such a thing as a soul? What is it? Is it divorced from the body or integral to it? Does it even exist in the body at the time of birth?
Maybe Jr. will be stillborn. Maybe Jr. will day within the first week. Maybe Jr. will be a casuality in a natual disaster near after birth.
One answer to the recurring image of the “unfit mother” & woman who uses abortion as birth control is compassianate education. Sex Ed., in an accessible manner, as well as easy access to birth control. And, yes, governmentally funded. To my mind, this is money well spent. Healthy, loved children make this a better place for us all.
Sake, My statement is not hollow. It is true.
Your morals wouldn’t have to change. There ARE situations where abortion is the morally correct choice. Not the hypothetical situations that are always thrown around in these threads. Real situations experienced by real people.
And I’ve personally seen one such real person emotionally destroyed by exactly the same crap you are posting here. Is that a part of your moral code as well?
If all is fair with the world, you will find yourself in a situation personally, or someone you love will be in that situation, and you will get to see how real life is.
I find your commentary to be barbaric, insensitive, and unbelievably cold. You also show a tendency to make statements which are at best classist, but really do show your racist viewpoints all too well.
Reading your posts, I see a person using the same logic that would allow a clinic bomber to rationalize killing the doctor because he “killed babies,” and I wouldn’t be surprised if your words were used by someone for that same purpose.
Feel free to think however you want on the subject. But if you honestly think that you are not forcing your own value system upon others with this inane hyperbolic bile you spread, then you’re confusing libertarian ideals with neo-conservative thoughts that cannot even be analogous to the Moral Majority, because people with your viewws generally are not even Americans - They are dictators in Third World countries or recluses hiding out in shacks in Montana.
In a nutshell, you make closed-minded quasi-consercative Christians look good, simply because for all of their faults, at least they want to see some good come out of a situation. Whereas you just pander hate, discrimination and total destruction of all things good.
I’m glad I don’t know you. And I hope I never will…
Pmh: My apologies, I shouldn’t have written “Period.” I was referring to using abortion as birth control. That was what the period was for. I can understand aborting the pregnancy if the child is severely deformed or there exists a great possibility that going through with the birth will kill the mother. I shouldn’t have been so authoritative and abrupt. I have personally been down some of these very roads, and am speaking from experience - as it seems you are.
Satan: You really need to change your username.
On another note, you probably hold the record on this board for sheer number of inane postings. You are also pandering and insecure, and you flirt and gossip like a high school girl.
Perhaps you should avoid reading topics that disturb you. And if you see my username, please skip over it like I already do yours.
My son has disabilities and even if i had known prior to his birth (i had a great pregnancy… the birth was bad because he was so big) i would never have aborted him… He has brought so much sunshine into my life and even after the nights i spent walking him all night long and then working all day, to come home again and see that smiling face… it makes it all worth it… people take the easy way out way too much, way too often.
We are, each of us angels with only one wing;
and we can only fly by
embracing one another
And YOU, Sake, hold the record for the most racist, classist, and altogether illogical posts I’ve ever seen on this board–and I’ve only seen you on this thread!
All in all, if I had the choice between being inane and flirty or thinking like you do, I’d pick flirty any day. At least I could look in the mirror without having to think of what a raging asshole I am.
Did any of you ever stop to think that ultimate person who has to make the answer is the woman involved? Did you ever stop to think that her decision is also judged by God and not us mortals.
I am the product of an unplanned pregnancy. There were many times in my adopted childhood where I wish I had never been born and even today when the depression seeps in, I get that feeling again. My lame-ass birth mother refuses to meet me, my dick-weed birthfather wanted to “take care of it” so I know from the “child’s perspective.” I could have easily been aborted. I respect her decision, but she didn’t respect my feelings as a human and realize that someday I would want to know more about me and where I come from. For her inability to take responsibility 30 years later is inconceivable and I don’t see that her act of giving me up for adoption is any grounds for praising. She is a selfish bitch and can only think of herself. At least with my birthfather I know where I stand with him.
Abortion no matter how you look at it is a terrible thing, but never assume that most women take this decision lightly. Most squirm over the moral issues, family issues, future possibilities and how to live with those decisions. However, to those that are completely against it, that’s fine but remember that there is also a human life that felt she had to make that decision. In the end that woman will have to answer to a higher power about her decision. She will live with the thought of that unborn for the rest of her life and wonder if she made the right decision. But the worst thing that any human can do is call her a baby killer and think she is so devoid of emotion that she simply thinks of the fetus as a parasite.
One must remember that women have been doing this for most of human existance, luckily today it is safer and more is understood about the implications of such.
I believe in choice, and keeping that choice safe. Knowing in my heart that most women who go through this must not be seen as monsters but human beings with a heavy-hearted decision that will forever impact their lives.
No. That’s a statement, I made. That was a generalization that you had perpetuated on this board.
I was also trying to push you to say something somewhat humane, somewhat human. Apparantly that’s too difficult for you. I guess I was wrong. Apparantly your concern for humanity extends no further than the “Me, My, Mine” philosphy.
I won’t put any words in your mouth; What you’ve said already is more than enough for me.
I would expect you to bring up an argument like this. Not only is it classically classist, racist, et. al., but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with fact that you’d willingly allow people to die, because their morality doesn’t fit in with your wonderland view of life.
Rights are bought and sold every day? Is this right to you??? I commented on this (maybe you missed it); here’s instant replay:
<Blockquote>“No, just those who can afford that right. Should we institute a literacy test before all abortions. (you know to make sure they are educated enough to make the decision) Make them recite Roe v. Wade by memory.”</Blockquote>
(HINT: I’m alluding to something with that statement. Can you figure it out???)
I guess that you’d be your own executioner.
Nah, you just sentence them. ::See above statements::
I’ve got a bit more to say, but I’ll save that for when I’m clear headed. . .
It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either.
—Mark Twain
techchick68: You are right, of course. I also believe in choice, and keeping that choice safe. This is important. Women have come in and out of power for the course of human history. I think it’s long past time for woman to cease being second class citizens. 51% of the population should have 51% of the power.
I, too deal with this impact on my life. If you are a monster - so am I. I would have three sons or daughters by three wonderful woman in my past if not for abortion. Yes, we used birth control & condoms, but nothing is 100%. I was stupid. It was a very tough decision to make.
I have always been of the frame of mind that I would rather have a child than abort one. I have the money to support the children and the mother, but my girlfriends had a different point of view. I can respect that. I did.
I think that is the key. It is easy to create an us vs. them world, where all “good” people follow your rules, and all “bad” people do “bad” things. Of course, some actions are inherently evil, but many–if not most–are far more complex.
Abortion was an easy black and white issue a few years ago. Then two of my friends confided they’d had an abortion, and currently a third friend is considering one. Their circumstances were infinitely more complex than I once considered, and though I do/did ultimately hope they would have give birth (and adopted out), I have come to recognize 1) it’s not my decision, 2) it’s not my body, and 3) there are no easy answers. I love my friends, and frankly the entire situation is sad–regardless of the decision made.
Satan, we simply disagree about the double standard. To me, having the value of a child determined strictly on whether or not it is wanted/convenient to the mother is repulsive and just plain ludicrous. But this is the SDMB, and it’s about sharing ideas (and hopefully respecting differences). So, differences aside, I do find your commentary provoking–I just still disagree.
I used to think the world was against me. Now I know better. Some of the smaller countries are neutral.
I see three posts so far in this thread that have accused our friend Sake of being racist.
I’ve looked back over his posts very carefully, and I’m afraid I don’t see it.
Was it the fact that he used a name that “sounded black,” the fact that he set the other person in the projects, where (in my experience anyway) most people are black, or was there some other thing that I totally missed?
And this altogether ignored his point of “Who’s going to get better medical treatment: the President, or some po’ folks barely scraping by?”
I’d venture to say the Prez, regardless of whether the “po’ folks” in question are Blacks living in a project, rednecks living in their grandparents’ leaking trailer, or the Hispanic family of 6 living in the van.
Actually, we disagree that there IS a double standard. I don’t think there is one and you do.
How so? Some actions in the workplace would have two different women think it was either harrassment or just good fun.
Ultimately, there are laws on the books which all come down to how the person who is effected thinks of the issue.
In another case, we all agree that going up to someone and killing them is pretty wrong, but still many people wish to be euthanized when their “quality of life” diminishes.
Different circumstances, different people, different standards.
In this issue, and since abortion is still legal (not so you’d really know it, but I digress), a person can make the decision to abort her fetus. She can make this call based upon her feelings on the matter.
This person also has the right to feel that her soon-to-be-born is, in thought and deed a “child.”
Either way it’s HER body, so I don’t think it’s “repulsive” for her to make her own interpretations of what is inside it, and whether it will come out or not.
In a nutshell, it is her choice to have the baby or not. And any outside force that takes away from this choice is equally bad.
Certainly. Just don’t call it a double standard. Call it a quandry if you must, but I fail to see a double standard.
You’re right Mjollnir, I have posted nothing racist. Some of the folks here pretty much ignored the meat of the issue and decided to throw around vague, baseless terms like “racist” and “classist”.
I suppose if you can’t make a coherent arguement, name-calling is sufficient.
And Satan - back off the ad hominem attacks. If you feel you really must initiate a crusade against the “evil that is me” go to the pit. I’d rather ignore you there then here.
I think it’s outrageous that non-slave owners were trying to impose their moral stand on honest, law abiding slave owners in the South prio to the Civil War. If other folks didn’t like the idea of owning slaves, then fine…don’t own slaves…but why did they feel a need to impose their viewpoint on others?
Folks who feel tempted to point out the difference between a fetus and a slave are missing the point…certainly at some time , blacks were not considered fully human (witmess Dred Scott)…and yet those who thought that they were human and deserved some rights…IMPOSED that morality on the slave owners… even though they did not own slaves, and were not as directly affected economically by the loss of relatively cheap labor.
The notion that only half the human species can express a valid opinion on the abortion issue is a silly, insulting notion.
You’ve made several statements about how’d you support someone’s right to have an abortion, yet you’ve turned around and said if a person can’t afford it (you’d denine them gov’t funding), she should either give birth or die!
How’s that not classist?
You’ve lumped all the poor people together in that they should be sterilized.
and finally,
“Shaniqua Johnson of S.E. Kramer Project 6.”
Why did you happen to pick a ‘black-sounding’ name for someone to live in the projects. Was it for shock-value?
You could probably be the most naive,insensitive fellow I’ve met on this board, Sake.
