I speak as someone who’s the first one to wince when she sees a woman in an unflattering outfit BUT:
I don’t see anything wrong with women, especially young women, pushing the boundaries of what they wear. Your teens and even your early twenties are a time of figuring out who you are, or who you want to be, and your clothes are representative of that. They were for me and my friends, anyway - maybe some of you are born knowing who you are, but I had to figure it out.
So I wore, in my younger days (still only 26, but anyway…), a lot of clothes people would consider skanky. There was tiny mini-skirts and cropped tops. There was the goth/rock-chick phase, in which I wore top-to-toe PVC and fishnet, not to mention more eyeliner than your average Egyptian Pharoah. And yes, I wore low-slung jeans with my thong, tattoo and naval piercing on display. Now, I wouldn’t be seen dead in any of that stuff now, but I’m glad I did it. I’m glad I wore exactly what I wanted to wear, rather than what my mum/friends/society thought I should be wearing. I’m glad I showed off my youthful figure while it was at it’s best. Nowadays, I’m an adult with a job and a sense of propriety, and as such I feel I have to dress “suitably for the occasion”, whatever that may be. But I’m glad I had a few years of thinking nothing of wearing a ballgown and Doc Matins to the supermarket at 9am on a Saturday, just because I could.
FWIW though, during all of that I never dressed to attract men. Every guy I’ve ever known has thought I looked sexiest in simple clothes and minimal make-up. But where’s the fun in that?
Well, perhaps you live in fantasy land, where tight jeans, high heels and underwire bras are super comfortable and are worn around the house in lieu of sweats and slippers. Thats great, in that case you would be right. Frankly though, your location doesn’t say Pleasantville. Now feeling good about themselves and comfortable are not synomous, and I don’t know why you seem to suggest that they are. More fantasy land mumbo jumbo I am sure. I dress in a tie and dress shoes sometimes too, but I sure as hell don’t play raquetball in them, because they sure as hell are not comfortable, no matter how good I feel in them.
Who am I to judge the norm? Somebody that pays attention to the opposite sex and trends and makes judgement calls based off those. In other words, a human just like yourself. except I don’t live in fantasy land with fingers in my ears going la la la, you are a man, you don’t know shit.
Comfort is not the only criteria on which women choose to wear things, even for themselves. Some women like to look nice, for themselves. Some women think they look weird without bras, to themselves. For goodness sake, do you really think women’s lives revolve around male attention to that extent?
I would like to note that clearly, you haven’t worn a bra. No, it’s not the most comfortable thing on the planet, but geez, it’s not the least either. Most women don’t notice it.
I didn’t say women only dressed for comfort. Our local porn star is saying that.
I am saying that women dress to look nice, and that perception of what looks nice is influenced on one of two things: Other women, or men. Mostly other women.
(Most) women don’t find bras that uncomfortable? Or heels? Is that why so many women where I work, go to school, as well as ex girlfriends and women comedians are always going on about it? Somehow I doubt being in Kansas City is any different anywhere else in the US in that regard.
Frankly, as a large-breasted woman, it’s far more uncomfortable not to wear a bra. Generally, they’re only uncomfortable if they don’t fit properly. Or if you’re wearing one of those “hoike 'em up, squash together, point 'em outwards” numbers, which most women don’t wear everyday, only on special occasions - occasions when they probably are dressing to please a man (or woman, if you’re that way inclined). And, upon occasion, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Did you read the whole thread? We went through the jealousy thing. We went through the sexy vs. skanky thing. We went through the women-want-the-attention-of-men-24/7 thing.
Epimetheus: I’ve never heard anyone complain about a bra being uncomfortable, unless (like Jennyrosity pointed out) it doesn’t fit right. It’s more comfortable to me to wear a bra, cause otherwise you get this friction thing which can be your nipple’s worst enemy (ever hear of “runner’s nipple”?). And a lof of the women I know don’t wear high heels. There are alternatives to the stiletto heel nowadays that are just as fashionable and (IMO) sexy. There’s definitely a happy medium between “must look good feet are killing me” and “I’m wearing sweats for the fifth day in a row”. And it’s not hard to dress that happy medium, either. I don’t know why the women you associate with must continually force themselves into stuff that they don’t like.
I have found that GAP jeans with a touch of spandex are good–I get the bootcut so that there is a bit of flare. I cannot buy jeans elsewhere–I am 42–I don’t want butterflies on my jeans and I don’t want huge flares, either. Kohl’s dept. store also has some nice cords that have a slight flare and are not too low cut. It has taken me about 5 years to find these pants. I am 5’7"; normal weight. When I was younger (pre-kids), I could fit Levi’s, but those days are over.
I agree that men and women should wear clothes appropriate to the occasion–and IMO, the computer lab is not the place for club clothes. Forget the meat market–or is that a reference to women going to college to meet men and get their Mrs.? When I was in college, I studied in sweats etc, as did every other girl I knew–comfort mattered most. When we went to the bars etc–then the uncomfortable albeit more attractive clothing came out. And guess what? There were still girls who dressed skankily for the clubs! Sexy leaves the imagination with some work to do; skanky doesn’t, as pointed out by a previous poster. But I would add to that sexy only shows off one thing at a time. It’s the glimpse of a midriff, the tease of a neckline, the skirt that shows off great legs–but not all three. Skanky is too obvious and also seems to be trying too hard–a sure sign of insecurity (not sexy).
I know plenty of guys who don’t like the skanky look–they may like to look at it, but they don’t want to date that girl etc. But these are guys who want conversation and companionship, not a quick lay…
I don’t know where the thought came from that “decent” means covered up like some puritan. There are plenty of off the shoulder shirts or low cut blouses, short skirts etc that are NOT skanky. Then again, it would seem that skanky may well be in the eye of the beholder.
As to the “theory” that women dress to compete with other women–that made me laugh. As if! Sweetums–I may (in my single days) have dressed upon occasion to get a certain guy to notice me, but seriously, getting a guy to notice me depended more on my behavior, not my fashion choices.
I dress for comfort, to look good for myself, to represent my job role professionally etc–IOW, appropriate to the occasion. Refusing to dress this way speaks volumes about the person making the choices–not always to her/his credit.
It’s hard for me, because I’m rather petite, but I do have hips and a slight badonkadonk. I’m 5’2", and my legs are short on top of that. I usually have my choice of length or width when it comes to jeans. I used to wear Old Navy bootcut jeans all the time, but then about a year and a half ago, they changed the fit. There’s a whole lot of room in the crotch that I have no need for. They also added several inches to the length, even to the “short” sizes.
Anyway, I lucked out, because I buy all my jeans at Target now, off the clearance rack. The most I’ve had to pay for a pair of jeans in the last six months was $18. Mossimo makes a bunch of great styles, most of them not trendy, and they fit me really well. I still do end up with frayed hems sometimes from walking on the back of my pants, but they’re closer, at least.
So my advice is to look for jeans in unlikely places. Try the clearance racks. It worked for me, at least.
I don’t know exactly where Tracy lives, but if it’s Eugene, OR then the usual attire (for late teens-early 20s) would be a broomstick skirt, loose shell top, and clogs or Doc Martins. No bras, no tight jeans, and definitely no high heels. I live about an hour away, and my entire campus wears hooded sweatshirts, snug (not tight) jeans, and clogs. There are a few sorority girls who do the whole thong-hanging-out thing, but they are usually thought of as skanky, even by frat boys.
I was in a girl’s room on campus yesterday, and heard one of these sorority girls complaining to another that her boss at her job in a microbiology lab was making her wear jeans that covered her ass.
BTW, Tracy, where do you dance? I go to events mostly in Corvallis, but sometimes in Eugene or Portland. Maybe I’ve run into you?
Ross Rocks! I love my $10 jeans. They do tend to have butterfly prints and such, but if you have the time to dig through all of that crap, you can find some really great stuff.
I’ve also had great luck at the Gap, but it’s hard to pay $50 per pair when I can find such great deals elsewhere.
Um, if you buy the correct size, and a good design, underwire bras ARE comfortable. You must know women who have no idea how to find comfortable clothing. I wear underwire bras every day, and have no problems with them. Mainly because I get the proper cup size, as well as the proper length, not to mention wide shoulder straps. They’re pretty too. High heels, can be comfortable, if you buy ones that actually fit your feet correctly. I wouldn’t wear them for longer than an evening of dancing, but I’d be comfortable in them. As for finding jeans that were actually made with a female frame in mind, I can find them, sometimes, with luck.
If all the women you work with and know wear uncomfortable clothing and shoes all the time, Epimetheus, you are not working with average women. Most of the women I know (including myself) wear mostly comfortable clothes, and mostly comfortable shoes. There’s the odd one that wears heels all the time, but they’re usually a short woman who’s heightening. That’s not to say women never wear anything uncomfortable, but it’s usually a “dress up once a week” sort of thing, not torturing themselves every single day.
Oh, by the way, don’t put too much stock in what comedians say. They’re using generalizations and exaggerations for effect.
I guess all the women I have heard complain about those three things are doing for attention or as Zabali_Clawbane said, they just don’t know how to shop for clothes. Because I am not talking an isolated woman or two, I am not even talking about a measley 10-12 women either.
Now I guess this whole argument could degrade into a definition of comfortable, so lets just say that my opinion is that something that isn’t uncomfortable for a few hours while dancing or something isn’t something I would call comfort. If you can only wear something a few hours before it starts to get uncomfortable it really can’t be said to be comfortable. Like a suit and tie. Not something I would spend a day lounging around the house in. That is what I call comfort, not the opposite of painful.
As for the heels, I was under the impression the girls I have heard complain about it were referring to the stilleto style heels, not the heeled clog shoes or boots.
And personally, except for comfort (sandals/shorts/sweats) type of thing, I have never heard of a woman dressing except for fashion sense (impressing other women), or trying to look good for the guys. Three ways to dress IMO: Fashion, comfort, and dressing to attract the opposite sex, sometimes you get lucky and find all three, but lets get serious, you didn’t pick that one because it was comfortable, you picked it because it was fashionable AND comfortable, or just fashionable. Or you want to look outright sexy.
I doubt ANY woman seriously puts on some clothes to go to work/school/shopping/dinning, etc, except to go grocery shopping in clothes she bought just to be comfortable. Now on occasion I do see a girl in sporty clothing or sweats, but most of the time they are wearing stuff that looks very uncomfortable. What a sacrafice for fashion.
Maybe you should grow up. Generalizations are all a person has. It isn’t my fault you don’t act like Kansas Citians. Even you generalize, so don’t get all holier than thou. And yes, that isn’t a generalization, but a trusim.
I think the women you’ve heard complaining are complaining because they think they’re supposed to - that is one way women bond - they bitch with each other.
Just a couple of points:
Wearing a well fitting bra is actually more comfortable than not wearing a bra, assuming the woman has any sort of boobage (I’m a C, and it’s downright uncomfortable to move at any rate of speed with no bra.)
When women, such as myself, ALWAYS wear heels, the achilies tendon shortens in length so that wearing a flat shoe for any amount of time is VERY uncomfortable - basically you get shin splints and achilies tendonitis - both are rather sucky. Hence, for a woman like me, a heel is MORE comfortable. Secondly, a well made, well fitting shoe is comfortable like a bedroom slipper the moment you put it on - shoe sales men (women) that tell you you need to “break in a shoe” or “wait for the leather to stretch” are full of shit. I have 4" heels at home that are totally comfortable - no, I wouldn’t go hiking in them, but I can certainly stand and walk all day in them. To the gals complaining, I would suggest buying better shoes.
Uber tight jeans that cut up the crotch and ride low so the belly hangs out are NOT comfortable, at all - in this, your lady friends are totally correct.
Do you know any SAHM’s? I was one, and now am back working PT and I buy and wear clothes for comfort all the time. Right now I am wearing a soft wool sweater with cords, warm nubbly socks and clogs. Most of the women like me also dress in jeans, warm up suits, sweats etc. Sure we want to look nice, but that is possible w/o skankness and discomfort!
Oh, and no thong, (but that’s TMI, really)–and a sports bra–my favorite kind. I dress like this every day–unless we have a business dinner to go to or similiar. Then the less comfortable clothes come out, but even then, you won’t find me in heels etc–there are too many good options for me to choose stuff I find uncomfortable. It’s idiosyncratic–lots of women find heels comfy, for instance.
I wear scrubs at work–the most comfortable clothes on the planet. Underwires are not for me, but others swear by them, some swear at the mention of them–it’s all individual.
Got any other generalizations I can help you with?
I suppose my tone was harsh, but my reasoning was sound. My logic, while not flawless, is certainly valid. It is not unreasable for a person to make inductions based off samplings of data. In my experience (and I have had some experience with this, and even asked many questions of the women), a very large sampling of women (I even asked them if it was common amongst their friends) find certain clothing uncomfortable even though they find it fashionable. Since my original argument is that women wear clothing to be fashionable rather than comfortable (though both at the same time is obviously not impossbile).
This type of reasoning is called Inductive generalization, and is valid and not unreasonable. So don’t preach at me about not using generalizations. Obviously I was wrong because location certainly plays a part, and my sample size was pretty small, but certainly around 20 different women. My use of generalization, was NOT wrong. Everyday life depends on generalization. My generalization was wrong, not my use of it.
