Oh, and even Jesus told you to pay your taxes.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Incorrect. Rights are granted by the US Constitution and you do not have an inherent right to earn income in the US without paying taxes on them. Your “creator” has no say in the matter.
[/QUOTE]
Fuck off, liar. Human rights are not granted by any political constitution.
I have the rights to the fruits of my labor.
I do not have the right to steal from my neighbor.
Your system turns both of those truths on their heads.
Those aren’t truths–they’re beliefs (which are just trumped-up opinions).
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
Fuck off, liar. Human rights are not granted by any political constitution.
[/quote]
Yes they are. Sorry to piss in your oatmeal. Invisible “creators” have no legal authority in this country. Maybe you’d be more comfortable someplace like Saudi Arabia.
As long as you pay your taxes (like Jesus told you to do). The state provides the environment which allows you to earn an income.
Of course not, but who would you call if your neighbor was stealing from you? The police? Who pays for that?
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
How do any of those factors support taxing someone’s livelihood?
Ideas are one thing, but my rights are inherent, as endowed by the Creator. You do not have the right to take my livelihood, or my property. I realize that you think you do, but you are wrong.
[/QUOTE]
What are you smoking tonight? You are clearly not living in any society on the planet Earth. Might I suggest that you pray to your “Creator” to beam you aboard the light-ship Utopia asap.
It would be helpful to the libertarian cause for libertarian Dopers to counter bullshit like Carol Stream’s.
Because if her opinions are at all representative of the philosophy, you guys will always be marginalized.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Yes they are. Sorry to piss in your oatmeal.
[/QUOTE]
Seems to me you are just pissing on yourself, as usual.
According to the Virginia Declaration of Rights:
Article 1 states that “all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights of which…[they cannot divest;] namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety”
Which of course led to the American Declaration of Independence:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
By virtue of existing, I have unalienable rights, endowed by the Creator, and one of those rights is the means of acquiring and possessing property.
To suggest otherwise is going against the very foundation of our nation. Now, if you want to subscribe to the virulent nuttiness of Messrs. Marx & Lenin, have at it. But leave the rest of us out of it, please.
The Declaration of Independence has no legal authority, dumbass. The US is founded on the Constitution, not the DoI.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
The Declaration of Independence has no legal authority, dumbass. The US is founded on the Constitution, not the DoI.
[/QUOTE]
No shit, Sherlock.
The laws are not founded on the Declaration, but our ideals are. Why are you so adamently against them?
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
No shit, Sherlock.
The laws are not founded on the Declaration, but our ideals are. Why are you so adamently against them?
[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what you think you mean by “ideals,” but our RIGHTS are spelled out by the Constitution. There is no Constitutional right (or “ideal”) not to pay taxes. You support taxes too as long as you support having a military, a police department, a fire department, a post office, a sanitation department, a water department, public roads, a government, etc. You’d just rather have the government spend the money spying on your neighbors or invading other countries than spending a few pennies for the public good.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I have no idea what you think you mean by “ideals,” but our RIGHTS are spelled out by the Constitution. There is no Constitutional right (or “ideal”) not to pay taxes. You support taxes too as long as you support having a military, a police department, a fire department, a post office, a sanitation department, a water department, public roads, a government, etc. You’d just rather have the government spend the money spying on your neighbors or invading other countries than spending a few pennies for the public good.
[/QUOTE]
Liar. Cite that I support spending money on spying on my neighbors or invading other countries?
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
Liar. Cite that I support spending money on spying on my neighbors or invading other countries?
[/QUOTE]
You support Bush, don’t you? Where do you think he gets the money for all that invading and peeping he does?
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Where do you think he gets the money for all that invading and peeping he does?
[/QUOTE]
From Congress, I imagine. You know, from Hillary, and John Kerry, when he was for it before he was against it.
Here’s you supporting the use of confiscated tax money to send 20,000 of your neighbors to Iraq.
I’ll see if I can find anything you’ve said about the spying on US citizens (unless maybe you want to repudiate that now).
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
From Congress, I imagine. You know, from Hillary, and John Kerry, when he was for it before he was against it.
[/QUOTE]
Do you think Congress has little money printers on their desks? Bush has had a Republican controlled Congress for every spending bill he’s ever signed by the way (every tax bill too).
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Here’s you supporting the use of confiscated tax money to send 20,000 of your neighbors to Iraq.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I do support that, because it’s better to fight the war in Iraq rather than in Minneapolis or Chicago.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Do you think Congress has little money printers on their desks? Bush has had a Republican controlled Congress for every spending bill he’s ever signed by the way (every tax bill too).
[/QUOTE]
Explain why Hillary (and Kerry as far as I know) voted for it, then?
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
I have the rights to the fruits of my labor.
I do not have the right to steal from my neighbor.
Your system turns both of those truths on their heads.
[/QUOTE]
What kind of labor are you going to perform when there is no basic infrastructure to support a vibrant market economy? Are you going to skin possums and make breech-cloths from them? Maybe trade some of those stinking, filthy garments for some salt so you can preserve your possum gizzards through the winter so you don’t starve? Rotted possum guts are the fruits of your labor?
Do you think your personal wealth will be greater in an anarchy? I think you’d be dead before the winter was half over without the comforts and protections of a advanced, functioning society such as the one we have now. The one with taxes. The taxes that pay for things. Things that you benefit from every second of every day. Even if you are too dull-witted to recognize any…
…wait a second. Ah… someone at the door… Sorry for the interruption, let me explain:
An hour ago my neighbor here in Fantasy Libertaria La-La Land called for help because his home was engulfed in flames and his children were trapped inside. I’m a member of the Firefighter Corporation, but we don’t turn out until we get paid. It took a while, but some rascal finally came around with a few gold bars.
Gotta go now! It’s too late to save anybody, but if I’m early I might still find some valuables. Sometimes the relatives will pay for the children’s incinerated remains so they have something to bury. And best of all… NO TAXES ON DEAD BABIES’ BONES!
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
Explain why Hillary (and Kerry as far as I know) voted for it, then?
[/QUOTE]
Because they were gutless pussies.
[QUOTE=Carol Stream]
Yes, I do support that, because it’s better to fight the war in Iraq rather than in Minneapolis or Chicago.
[/QUOTE]
Well then you support taxing your neighbors. QED.