Aside from the obvious (C.E.O.s of underperforming companies), we have wedding photographers, orthodontists, and a some others. One of the ones that surprised me:
What do you think? Assuming the figures in the article are correct and truly representative, do these represent gross distortions of the market due to odd local conditions, or is this still the market working its magic?
Professional Football Player
Professional Baseball Player
Professionaly Basketball Player
Professional Golfer
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.
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As for your longshoreman example, I think the quote pretty much explains it. You don’t get an “ironfisted lock” on jobs w/o the government (or the mob) backing you up. I’d vote for “not free market” in this case.
I’d dispute professional golfer–Tiger gets paid exactly what he wins, and if he doesn’t win, he doesn’t get that money. The point the article made about professional athletes was that they can sign a big contract after a few good years, and then coast, and the player’s union won’t let teams tie compensation to performance.
Most “professional golfers” are pros at country clubs, and public and private courses. They’re mostly salaried, and most that I’ve known have middle class incomes.
Most “professional golfers” are pros at country clubs, and public and private courses. They’re mostly salaried, and most that I’ve known have middle class incomes.
Only the US? I can give you an Ontario one: hydro. People start at $28/hr w/full benefits (something like $45k/yr). Everyone from the guy who scrubs the toilets to the part-time receptionist who surfs the net all day. My friends bf does the laundry there and makes $78,000 yr (he doesn’t even have to fold! They have folding machines!). I’ve been trying for a yr to get on there but it’s an open secret, 1500 people applied for the last opening. Teachers give up their careers to mop the floors it’s such a high paying job.
OK, OK. I meant PGA tour player.
And it’s partly out of jealousy that I listed them. These guys get payed for playing golf! Compared to golf, football is an actual job.
Not really. Check out the PGA Tour Money List. You make damn good money without “winning”.
How do you define being paid ‘too much’? I would define it as people who are paid more than they are worth in a truly open, free market.
So, you’d have to look at government bureaucrats, closed-shop union employees, subsidized industries, etc.
Professional athletes are only paid ‘more than they deserve’ when their big salaries are paid for with taxpayer money, say as a result of subsidized stadiums and such lowering the cost of running a team.
I distinguish golfers from other pro athletes because the amount they get paid is directly related to their standings. Vijay made more than Tiger last year because his standings were higher–simple as that. It’s also possible to get dropped from the tour if your game goes. It’s still a lot of money for playing golf, but at least there’s a direct connection between pay and performance, and there’s no taxpayer dollars involved.
Hansel:
You’re right, but it’s really a matter of team vs individual sports. Tennis works the same way as golf, for example.
As a general proposition we can say that anyone who make more than I do, and maybe more than you do, is overpaid.
I’d say that most CEOs of Fortune 1000 companies are grossly overpaid. And before anyone cries “open free market”, please compare to other “open free markets”, where the jobs and pay scales are not controlled by the employees.
Define “government bureaucrats,” please.
I’m not saying government bureaucrats ARE overpaid. I’m saying that since the government is exempt from market forces, that’s where you’d find them if you looked. No doubt some are under-paid, for similar reasons.
Where are the Juwan Howards and Austin Crosheres?
Comment on the article cited in the OP:
I’m an airline pilot. I’m always amazed at how much money the newspapers say I earn. I wish I did that well.
They often take the maximum possible salary, the one that only maybe 10% of the folks at maybe 10% of the companies earn for only the last year or two of their 30-year career and assert that that’s some sort of average or typical lifetime salary. Not so.
It’s a bit like saying that all middle managers earn $500K/yr or better because a few Sr. VPs at big corporations earn that much and after all, all middle manangers are in the promotion path to Sr VP.
So I’d doubt the reality of longshoreman pay is as impressive as the article makes out.
I’ve also noticed a tendency for these figures to include the value of medical plans, retirement plans, etc. as part of the “salary” figure. Heck, I even saw one peice of propaganda that included the employer’s part of FICA taxes (old-age pension for the non-americans in the audience) as included in the workers’ salary.
Are the longshoremen overpaid? Probably. Does every dummy who lifts heavy things really make $100K/yr? I bet not.
Sam, separating the “Government” from the “market” may work for some purposes but you’re going a little overboard. The government is, in fact, part of the market. In the labour market the government is just another consumer; it’s invalid to dismiss all government salaries as being outside market forces. If they’re completely outside market forces, I find it quite amazing that government jobs so often pay about the same as equivalent jobs in large corporations. Funny, that.
Government-spent money can’t be completely divorced from the free market, because
A) The workers will pick and choose government jobs no different from other jobs based on the perceived utility they’ll get out of them,
B) The government isn’t “exempt from market forces.” If the government was exempt from market forces they could hire talented people for minimum wage, couldn’t they? Hell, if the government was exempt from market forces, why are they spending any money at all? They are subject to all the same market forces when hiring people (or buying whatever) as anyone else. I wouldn’t work for the government for anything less than I’m being paid now in the private sector. There you go, I just exerted market forces on the government.
C) The government’s spending decisions do, to a very removed extent, reflect the desires of the taxpayer. You can state all you want that pro athletes are overpaid because the government subsidizes stadia, but most government-subsidized stadia were subsidized with the heavy support and approval of the taxpayer. You may disagree with it, but generally speaking, stadium subsidies reflect the desires of the people paying for them as a group. Torontonians may regret it now, but when the government ponied up a huge bag of money to build the SkyDome they were all for it. Calgarians were all for the government helping to build the Saddledome and the other Olympic venues. In the USA, many such stadia were actually the subject of referenda.
You can’t separate every spending decision a large organization makes from the market. How is government spending all that different from the spending of, say, General Electric? GE as a company spends more in a year than any provincial or state government. GE shareholders have no more direct input into GE’s spending decisions than taxpayers have on the government’s spending decisions. Would you argue that the salaries of GE employees are therefore likely to be above the “correct” market price? What about the employees of Citigroup, General Motors, Philips, or any other group the size of a government?
Institutional bond traders and salesmen. Especially the salesmen. You become one by virtue of membership in The Old Boy Network and get paid millions for it.
Based upon my experiences in court, judges are highly paid and do almost no real work:
Typical schedule:
-Arrive at court at 11 AM (supposed to be there at 9 AM)
-Get on robes, enter courtroom
-Announce recess for lunch (12 PM-2PM)
-Reopen court at 2 PM
-Hear cases
-Adjourn court at 4 PM
Hours worked: about 3/day. I’d say, GROSSLY OVERPAID!
I’d Say JUDGES
Based upon my experiences in court, judges are highly paid and do almost no real work:
Typical schedule:
-Arrive at court at 11 AM (supposed to be there at 9 AM)
-Get on robes, enter courtroom
-Announce recess for lunch (12 PM-2PM)
-Reopen court at 2 PM
-Hear cases
-Adjourn court at 4 PM
Hours worked: about 3/day. I’d say, GROSSLY OVERPAID!
…I have to agree with the above, especially those in larger cities and those on the Federal system. But let’s not forget about Lawyers who are in large fims and private practice!! Lawyers are the only profession that profit solely off the misery of their clients, also (this really erks me) the SLOWER they work on a case, the more they get paid!!! Either that or they get a hefty percentage of a settlement when they sue! Lawyers are actually triained in the “art of deception” they can twist truths into lies and lies into facts. Yet here is the irony, most politicians we elect are of what vocation???
…yep, lawyers! go figure.