The 2025 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot - SDMB, Let's Vote! And Argue!

The Game Room
1

The 2025 Hall of Fame ballot has been set, with a few names already eliminated by the screeners. Here we go.

NOTE: I’m going to do the 14 first times, then come back later and edit this post to add everyone else.

Normally I do these alphabetically but this time I’ll do the first time guys first.

FIRST BALLOT NOMINEES

CC Sabathia

To my mind Sabathia is a clear Hall of Famer. His career value, given the era he pitched in, is a bit above historical HOF standards, and he helped a lot of teams win a lot of thing. His career ERA of 3.74, given the context he pitched in, is actually better than, say, Nolan Ryan or Steve Carlton. These days 251 wins is a lotta wins.

Also, his… well-upholstered physique is an inspiration to all us normal dudes. I hope his display at the Hall of Fame includes this: C.C. Sabathia, Prince Fielder Keep Imagining Each Other As Giant Talking Hot Dog, Hamburger - The Onion

Ichiro Suzuki

100 percent guaranteed to be elected. Who doesn’t love Ichiro? Sabermetricians might complain his 60 career WAR isn’t as much as some guys who’ve been excluded but fuck that. He’d be around 80 or 90 if he hadn’t spent the first nine years of his career in Japan, and he was wonderful.

Ian Kinsler

Kinsler had exactly 1999 hits. I am surprised to report that he isn’t the only player who can say that; Jimmy Collins had 1999 hits. Collins, a similar player if you account for him being a dead ball era player, is in the Hall of Fame; Kinsler won’t stay on the ballot.

Kinsler was drafted three times, in 2000, 2001, and 2003. He turned it down the first two times, I assume to try to work his way up the draft and get paid, but the last time he only went in the 17th round, where you don’t get much. He ended up making $16 million a year so he did okay. He was a really good and multitalented player, actually, maybe 75% of a Hall of Famer.

Dustin Pedroia

A greater player than Ian Kinsler at his peak, legitimately HOF level, but physically wrecked early on and played only 1512 games in his career. One of four players I can think of who won the Rookie of the Year Award one year and MVP the next. This year’s trivia question is - who are the other ones to do that? (So across 2 years - not in the same year, like Fred Lynn and Ichiro.)

Felix Hernandez

Another elite player with a short career; the King’s career was just 169 wins over just short of 2800 innings. For seven or eight years there he was awesome, but so were Dave Stieb or Billy Pierce.

Hernandez won the 2010 Cy Young Award when he went 13-12. It was a little controversial at the time (though the vote wasn’t very close) but my recollection is that that was the CYA that sort of resulted in W-L being heavily disregarded in these things.

Curtis Granderson

Granderson isn’t a Hall of Fame but he was a unique player. He had a bizarre mix of skills and did weird things, like one year he hit 23 triples, or the year he hit 30 homers and only had 59 RBI, but then in 2011 he led the league in RBI even though he batted second most of the season (He also led the league in runs scored.) He was also by all accounts one of the finest gentlemen to ever wear an MLB uniform. He was easy to cheer for.

Troy Tulowitzki

Tulowitzki is as remembered for getting hurt a lot as he is for his tremendous skills; he was a Gold Glove quality shortstop who could crush baseballs, but he was injured out of being a star by the time he was 27.

Tulowitzki looked clumsy. I don’t know how else to describe it; whether hitting or fielding, he just LOOKED stiff and uncomfortable, even when he was hitting home runs or turning a slick play out at short. I wonder if there’s a connection between that and his being hurt a lot.

Ben Zobrist

Zobrist is a classic case of the underrated player, a guy who did almost everything really well without being spectacular at any one thing. He could play any position well, ran the bases well, got on base, never beat his own team. Whenever he went, his teams won.

Russell Martin

Fairly clearly the fourth best Canadian player of all time. The top three are Ferguson Jenkins, Larry Walker, and Joey Votto. I am not counting Freddie Freeman, who I think is entitled to Canadian citizenship but hasn’t actually gotten it. He’d be ahead of Votto on my list. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. will almost certainly surpass Russell someday.

His full name is Russell Nathan Coltrane Jeanson Martin; the Coltrane is after John Coltrane.

Hanley Ramirez

Looked for all the world like a Hall of Famer early in his career, then flamed out in his thirties. I’m not sure what happened to him. Guys just sometimes age quickly, but the Red Sox moving him all over the diamond in an effort to hide his glove likely didn’t do him any favors.

Adam Jones

Jones had a strikeout-to-walk ratio of around 4-1, which has to be one of the worst ratios in the history of baseball by a player who actually was pretty good for a long period of time; it helps that he was a terrific outfielder. Jones took off for Japan after his age 33 season but he was still basically the same player he’d always been.

Brian McCann

It was around the beginning of McCann’s career that the stats nerds started trying to measure the value of “framing” - moving your glove to fool umpires into thinking a ball was a strike, which is embarassingly effective and a clarion call for robot umps - and they fouind few catchers were better at it than Brian McCann. Some estimates are that McCann may have won 15-20 GAMES over this career just with pitch framing above an average catcher. If that is actually true, he was for awhile one of the best players in the major leagues, and an outer rim HOF choice, actually.

So is he? I mean, it’s weird; it doesn’t feel like it to me but that’s because when I look at his career I’m looking at the stats and facts I’m familiar with, which make him basically like someone like Bill Freehan or the aforementioned Russell Martin, not someone like Bill Dickey.

Carlos Gonzalez

Won a Coors Field “batting title.”

Fernando Rodney

Rodney was a “Closer” for a long time and saved over 300 games so he gets to be on the ballot, but there are starting pitchers who did more to help their teams in in 2-3 years than Rodney did in his career.

2

Ichiro is a lock, not sure CC will make it his first year, but he is almost assured to make it as well.

As for the rest of the list of newcomers, I’m not sure any rise to HoF level. I’d love if Pedroia could make it, but it’s a real long shot.

3

He played for more teams than I can count, but he was in the right place at the right time in 2019.

4

Ichiro is a lock, probably a first-timer lock, as well.

It hadn’t really registered to me that Sabathia was as good as he was, for as long as he was. He started 28+ games for 14 straight seasons, and from 2000 (as a 20-year-old starter) until 2012, he consistently posted a WHIP around 1.2, and a very good ERA. He wasn’t the same after 2012, particularly because of a bad knee, but that was a great run.

And, for me, as a Brewers fan, Sabathia gets extra credit for being what got them over the hump in 2008, to make their first playoff appearance in 26 seasons. Milwaukee had acquired him as a rent-a-player in July, and in his half-season as a Brewer, he started 17 games, going 11-2 with a 1.65 ERA, 7 complete games, 3 shutouts, with a 1.003 WHIP, a 255 ERA+, and a 4.9 bWAR. Dude finished in the top 6 in voting for both the NL Cy Young, and the NL MVP, and he was only in the league for half a season.

So, I vote for CC, as well. :slight_smile:

5

So, where’s the poll, RJ?

BBRef’s list, includes their JAWS HoF ranking system (which you don’t have to put any stock into, link also contains the main traditional stats).

Saddest ballot in quite awhile for this Red Sox, since it contains Dustin Pedroia, who had a chance to become a serious candidate if he hadn’t been injured when that Machado guy slid into him. Funny thing is that people accused M. of sliding dirty, but the replay shows him just barely touching Dustin’s knee when M.'s momentum had almost come to a stop. Game of millimeters. Lord DP was a fun player to watch.

6

How about Pete Rose? Shouldn’t they reconsider him given the recent acceptance of criminals in our society.

Sorry, don’t mean to turn this political but Pete was the greatest of his time.

7

Unless and until he’s ever removed from MLB’s “permanently ineligible” list, the Hall will never even consider him; some years back, the Hall changed their rules, to specifically exclude anyone on the ineligible list from consideration.

This was thrashed out at length here a few months ago, in a thread about Rose’s death. As I noted there:

8

I’d vote for Ichiro in a heartbeat.

Sabathia? That’s one I’m going to have to think on. He seems Hall of Very Good at first glance.

9

One of the four answers to the trivia question: Cal Ripken, Jr., AL RoY 1982, AL MVP 1983.

Looking forward to seeing the list of returners!

10

Rose may not be considered for enshrinement, per the rules. Let’s drop that subject please.

11

Returning names on the BBWAA ballot:

Billy Wagner

Wagner is in year 10 of eligibility and just missed last year so my expectation is he’ll make it this year. I just can’t see relief aces as usually deserving it; Wagner only pitched 903 innings and he’s one of the worst playoff performers in the history of the sport. Whatever.

Andruw Jones

Jones was at 61 percent last year and has only two more chances. Clearly a Hall of Fame player until he suddenly fell apart at age 30. Personally I think he’s more a sabermetric darling than a real Hall of Famer, but he was a greater player than Billy Wagner.

Carlos Beltran

I suspect he’d already be in had he not been one of the ringleaders of the Astros cheating effort. He was a very good player for a long time. Eventually he’ll get in, maybe not through the BBWAA but some “committee.”

Alex Rodriguez

One of the greatest players of modern times. He’ll get in one way or another someday. The omission of steroid-associated players is making the Hall seem a bit silly at this point, and hopefully a committee can fix what the BBWAA did.

Manny Ramirez

All bat, no glove poster boy. One of the best hitters I’ve ever seen and just a comically terrible outfielder. He would have been a MORE valuable player had he been a full time DH; he was just terrible out there. A delight to watch. Again, excluded for steroids but a no-doubter Hall of Famer.

Manny’s 165-RBI season is tied for the 14th most in baseball history, but it’s the most since baseball integrated.

Chase Utley

I’d put Chase Utley in the Hall before I put Andruw Jones in. He didn’t become a regular player until he was 26 and was immediately an annual MVP candidate. Utley, a second baseman, was as good a player as Roberto Alomar.

Omar Vizquel

Vizquel was going to make it and then it came out he enjoys sexual assault, so his vote share plunged. I think he’s overrated anyway; I’ve gone into it before but I just don’t think he compares to Ozzie Smith, the guy he’s always compared to. Maybe I’m wrong, I dunno.

Bobby Abreu

Abreu is another stat darling, as he had a high OBP and played a long time so his WAR is over 60.

That said, if you run him thru the Keltner list it’s basically “no” for every question, isn’t it? He was never the best player in MLB, or his league. He didn’t win any MVP awards or just much support in voting, or make many All Star games. He isn’t clearly (or even close to being) the best eligible player not yet inducted. He didn’t really impact any playoff races I can think of. Like, I know the analytics say he’s about equal to Ichiro, but Ichiro had impact on baseball history. Ichiro is a legend.

Jimmy Rollins

An excellent player at his peak, but his peak wasn’t long enough.

Andy Pettite

Harmed in the voters’ eyes by ,you guessed it, steroids (or HGH, whatever.) He’s much better than a number of starting pitchers in the Hall.

Mark Buehrle

The most aptly named man on the ballot and a classic, old school lefthanded junkball man. A great example of a guy who was very good for a long time but never really great.

Mark Buerhle helped me win $100 in a bar bet; someone insisted to me the 2015 Blue Jays had three former Cy Young winners; David Price, RA Dickey, and Mark Buerhle. I gently informed the guy Buerhle had never won a Cy Young and he told me of course he had and that I was an idiot. So I insisted we bet on it, thus earning me $100. I was later surprised to discover Buerhle only even got a Cy Young VOTE in one season.

Francisco Rodriguez

On the ballot only because he once saved 62 games in a season, a complete fluke, and which these days is a near-pointless stat. Voting for Rodriguez to be in the Hall because he set the save record is like voting for Chief Wilson to be in the Hall because he holds the single season triples record.

Torii Hunter

Went out there and hit 25 homers a year and played great defense for a long time. He drove in 1391 RBI, an amazing total for a guy no one thinks about anymore. It’s the 80th higher total in MLB history. It’s more than Johnny Bench or Brooks Robinson or Duke Snider or Mike Piazza or Al Oliver. He won nine Gold Gloves. I’m not saying he’s a Hall of Famer, but he was a hell of a way better player than Harold Baines, I’ll tell ya that.

David Wright

Something of a folk hero in Queens, so I’m surprised he doesn’t get much support, but his career ended much too quickly. About the same length as the aforementioned Dustin Pedroia.

12

Classic Baseball Era Committee Ballot

This is a different selection process to the HOF, but let’s add them in for fun.

Luis Tiant

Tiant probably was a Hall of Fame level pitcher. He was stuck in Cleveland early in his career, then attained some glory in Boston. His career 229-172 record doesn’t look great but he was a better pticher than that would suggest.

Ken Boyer

I’m honestly surprised Boyer isn’t already in the Hall of Fame. Boyer was a great player for some great Cardinals teams, won an MVP Award for a World Series champion, was an all around standout - way weirder choices have been made. He had a short-ish career ,but I’d vote for him.

Dick Allen

A genuinely awesome hitter - like, as good a hitter as George Brett or Manny Ramirez. Much shorter career, but that intensely good. The shortness of the career and his reputation as being the worst teammate ever kept him out, but who knows now. Personality tends to be forgotten as time passes.

Tommy John

The opposite of Dick Allen, a nice guy who played a long time but was never searingly great at anything.

Dave Parker

Parker for a few years there was as good a player as there was anywhere. Then he got a little too into cocaine; as Bill James noted, “everyone knows he didn’t lose his batting eye playing too much Scrabble.” Then he had a late career resurgence as a DH type but in most of those years he wasn’t doing a lot to really help his team win.

Steve Garvey

Garvey during his career was a HUGE star, the kind of athlete invited to do guest gigs on TV shows. After his career, two things happened to his candidacy; one, he turned out to not be the golden boy Christian good guy he had been pretending to be, and second, sabermetricians don’t like him. The latter was at least half wrong; the stats nerds claimed Garvey was not a good first baseman but one of the worst who ever lived, but that was just wrong, an error based on overvaluing assists by a first baseman. He was in fact a good first baseman. The obdervation that he was a bit overvalued as a hitter was true, though. Garvey’s 1974 MVP Award as an atrocious pick. He wasn’t even close to being his own team’s MVP.

Vic Harris

A Negro Leagues star who played for Homestead for like ten years when the Grays were one of the best teams in baseball, which makes it kinda hard to figure him out because he was never his team’s best player and rarely one of its three or four best - a common feature of Hall of Famers - but it’s a tall order to be that when your teammates are Josh Gibson, Roy Brown, and Buck Leonard. Harris had a really long career, but I don’t see how he was ever really an MVP calibre ballplayer. Electing him would sort of be like electing Gary Matthews or Jeff Conine. No one is gonna elect Chet Lemon to the Hall of Fame, but Chet was a way better player than Vic Harris.

I initially spelled his name “Vic Willis.” Vic Willis actually is already in the Hall of Fame.

John Donaldson

Already being confused by many fans who don’t read carefully with the third baseman who won an MVP Award for the Blue Jays a few years ago. This J. Donaldson was a Negro Leagues star when the Negro Leagues weren’t much organized and so there’s no real stats record for us to go by.

Donaldson’s stats, such as we have them, aren’t impressive. His exploits in less organized play were supposedly amazing, though. I don’t have time to research the guy, but my problem with his candidacy is that if he was so great

  1. Why was he just good-ish when playing organized Negro League ball right in his peak years? I mean, it’s cool he is alleged to have pitched 14 no hitters but they seem to have all been against teams like the Stephenson Machine And Welding Shop Company All Stars, and

  2. Most importantly, why isn’t he in already?

With regards to point 2, they have already inducted 37 Negro Leagues players, a number entirely from the 1890s to World War II, which given the population sizes, and even granting that Negro Leagues players could have been disproportionately better, seems a little high. I don’t think Donaldson or Willis have good cases, but again I’m working at a deficit here.

13

Trivia Question Answers: The Four Players To Win Rookie Of The Year, Then MVP The Next Year


Cal Ripken Jr.
Ryan Howard
Dustin Pedroia
Kris Bryant

14

My thoughts on the rest of the ballot:

Should be in, but are problematic (which is why they aren’t in yet, obviously)

  • A. Rodriguez
  • Ramirez
  • Beltran

At this point, I personally don’t have an issue if they get in, or if they never get in; they certainly played well enough to merit it, and I don’t dislike any of them the way I dislike Bonds or Clemens (who are now off the ballot entirely). I doubt that any of them will make it in on the BBWAA ballots.

Pettitte, I’m not sure on. I get that PEDs are probably a reason that he hasn’t gotten more votes, and part of why some supporters like him is that won five World Series, and has 19 postseason wins. OTOH, he was only an All-Star three times, never won a Cy Young, and his overall career numbers look OK, but not amazing, at least to my eyes…but maybe I’m missing something.

I’m not sure any of the rest on the main ballot have a compelling case to be in the Hall.

For the Classic Era ballot: I’d be happy with Tiant, Boyer, or Allen getting in. As @RickJay notes, Parker was awesome for a few years ('75-'79), until cocaine. And I think Garvey still gets chatter because he was so beloved in LA (and was a team leader on a semi-dynastic team), because he had a long consecutive-games streak, and because he was boy-scout telegenic (though it turned out he was a major jerk).

I don’t know enough about the Negro Leagues in general, or Harris and Donaldson, to make any sort of knowledgeable comment.

15

I’d vote for

CC Sabathia
Ichiro Suzuki
Luis Tiant
Ken Boyer
A-Rod
Manny

16

How far did his popularity fall when he got his injury that knocked him off of the “he’s going to break Lou Gehrig’s consecutive game record” pedestal? (In the end, his career total was only 202 more than the Gehrig streak.)

17

His consecutive-game streak ended in '83, though that was also the same year that he and Cyndy got divorced, which was a pretty big media deal at that time; it was also the first season after he left the Dodgers and signed with the Padres, so all of those may have contributed to his popularity beginning to dip.

Where I think it really took a hit was in 1988-89; in '88, it came out that there were two different women whom he’d gotten pregnant (at more or less the same time) and in '89, Cyndy released an autobiography which was very critical of Steve.

18

I think too that there is an odd gap there in that the Dodgers were an outstanding team for a long stretch there, between the 1974 pennant and the 1988 World Series team, and yet have few Hall of Famers. Don Sutton is the only HOFer I can think of who had a substantial impact on those teams. The team had STARS, famous and well regarded players; Steve Garvey, Fernando, Reggie Smith, Davey Lopes, Ron Cey, Pedro Guerrero, and latterly Dusty Baker (who will end up in the Hall as a manager) Orel Hershiser, Kirk Gibson and Bob Welch, and yet none were quite HOFers. The 1981 Dodgers are one of the very rare cases of a team winning a World Series with no Hall of Famers… and then the 1988 Dodgers are almost another (Don Sutton was on the team but didn’t play much and was not on the playoff roster.) It was weird.

19

I’m going to be in Cooperstown for my grandson’s baseball tournament during the MLB ceremonies this year. I have an Ichiro jersey. Is that enough to get into the venue? (or what is the procedure?)

20

That’s an excellent point. When I was writing my earlier post on Garvey, I was going through BBRef, and looking at the stats and performance of his Dodgers teammates: guys like Lopes, Cey, etc., whom I remember as being considered, at that time, to be STARS, as you say. And, yeah, they were all Hall of Very Good caliber.