The 2025 Papal Conclave

Politics & Elections
361

From your link (bolding mine):

Leo was elected to become The Holy See last month, and prior to his ascension was known to have disagreed with the president and vice president J.D. Vance in social media posts published while still a cardinal.

That seems weirdly written in more than one way, but perhaps it is on purpose? Anyway, I like what preceded that strange statement:

The pontiff has announced plans to screen a video message and mass in his hometown of Chicago at the same time that the president’s multi-million dollar party will be happening in Washington, D.C. Tickets for the event, which is to be held at the Rate Field, home of the Chicago White Sox (Pope Leo’s favorite team), are being sold online at $5 each. As of Wednesday the 40,000-sea stadium was almost entirely sold out.

Perhaps an American Pope is not so bad after all, particularly considering the alternatives that were possible.

362

Perhaps we should have a thread about the new Pope, and not keep posting on such matters in the conclave thread?

363

Did the conclave not lead to the Pope? The conclave is over, so it seemed natural to me to keep the thread alive by turning to the subject of the Pope, but if a new thread is deemed preferable we can open a new one and we let this one rest until there is a new conclave.

364

Bumped.

CNN: How Pope Leo was elected: New details of dramatic conclave battle revealed

365

CNN: Six key things we learned about Pope Leo in his first year

366

Still think of him as ‘Leo Ex-One-Vee’

367

Is he related to that other famous Xiv, Louis?

368

Interesting user name and message content mix.

369

Yeah, old emm-kay-vee-eye-eye is like that. But he’s very observant. After all, he has two … :zany_face:

370

No, MIX is a completely different number.

371

Hard to believe there’s been fourteen Pope Leos in just 1,585 years. That’s nearly one per century! :wink:

372

There were sixteen Louis’ in France in 1,000-odd years then two more after they got all huffy about the king thing in 1792. It all started started with Charlemagne’s son. Imagine if they’d kept up the pace.

373

Who was probably actually Hludowīg since he almost certainly spoke Old Franconian German as his native language, so he almost shouldn’t count :slightly_smiling_face:. It was his grandson Louis II who was likely the first to speak some version of Old French as a native tongue.

374

Speaking the language of the locals has never been a requirement of the ruling court. IIRC the Tsar’s court spoke French, not Russian and there are other examples I’m not arsed enough to look up now.

As an example, our current administration. He isn’t even a real king and a good bit of the time I have trouble parsing what comes out of his mouth.

“Excuse me, stewardess. I speak drivel.”

375

To be fair, popes have a higher turnover rate than kings.

376

Charles V of Spain spoke Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to his horse.

377

To be a good rider, you have to have affection between you and your horse, so I don’t know if the intended slight works so well.

378

IF the comment is properly attributed (i.e. it actually came from Charles V’s mouth), which is a big if, it would have been intended to be humorous but probably with a bit of affection. Charles’ younger brother the future Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand I was born and fully raised in Spain, spoke Spanish as his native language and as a result was the favored candidate for the Spanish throne by his grandfather the regent Ferdinand II of Aragon (the famous one). But instead it was the elder son, German-raised Charles that became king of Spain and the Spanish-raised Ferdinand (who learned German as a second language as a young man) that became the ruler of the ‘Austrian hereditary lands’.

So IF Charles did say that, it presumably implied a bit of gentle self-banter and also affection for his horse :slightly_smiling_face:.

379

My source quotes this differently:
Alius vero, qui Germanus erat, retulit, eundem Carolum Quintum dicere aliquando solitum esse;
Si loqui cum Deo oporteret, se Hispanice locuturum, quod lingua Hispanorum gravitatem maiestatemque prae se ferat; si cum amicis, Italice, quod Italorum dialectus familiaris sit; si cui blandiendum esset, Gallice, quod illorum lingua nihil blandius; si cui minandum aut asperius loquendum, Germanice, quod tota eorum lingua minax, aspera sit ac vehemens.

Translation: In fact, another man, who was German, reported that Charles V himself used to say at times: if he had to speak to God, he spoke in Spanish, for the Spanish language conveys gravity and majesty; if with friends, in Italian, for the Italian dialect was familiar; if he needed to soften someone up, in French, for no language is gentler; if he needed to threaten or speak harshly to someone, in German, for the entire language is threatening, harsh, and vehement.

This “used to say” indicates to me that he might have said something like this, more or less, which was found funny and witty (counselors knew when to laugh when the king speaks, just like today), and he repeated it occasionally, with variations.

But others quote him differently:
“I speak Italian with the ambassadors; French with the women; German with the soldiers; English with the horses; and Spanish with God.”
I think this quote was made up a posteriori, as he seems not to have spoken English. And he spoke Spanish badly and only late in his life, almost nothing when he came to Spain to be chosen their king. Many criticized his lack of knowledge of the language, and many spin doctors (a term that did not exist then, but it was common practice) invented many an anecdote.
Fact is: he was a bad king and a bad person. The history of Spain and Europe could have turned better had he not been chosen king of Spain. Or maybe not, we’ll never know.

380

Yeah, it’s impossible to say. Miguel da Paz had he made it past toddlerhood would have united all of Iberia (minus Navarre) with a truly massive seaborne empire. Hard to say what the butterfly-wings would have done with that.

Ferdinand would have been far more Hispano-centric as well, instead of Charles treating Castile and the New World as his personal piggy-bank to finance his European wars. But Castile and Aragon already had some structural economic issues that New World wealth was if anything exacerbating. Also Ferdinand seems to have been more religiously tolerant than Charles and he may have helped have an ameliorating effect on the religious turmoil in the east than Charles would have. They would probably have flipped brides and it would have been Charles taking the thrones of Bohemia and rump Hungary, defending against the Ottomans and more vigorously pursuing anti-Protestant reactions.

It’s an interesting “What If?”, though.