Is there a time line for this kind of wizardry? I would like to try to listen to some music from the before time to compare.
There’s this general Forbes article, and a link to this from there to an article about drum replacers.
The Forbese article mentions "But sample replacement as we know it today was “pioneered by the late great engineer Roger Nichols during the ’70s while working on Steely Dan records.” The other article mentions drum augmentation going back to the 60s. So, I guess it depends on what exactly you want answered. Using triggers to mix live sounds with samples, it sounds like late 70s/early 80s is what you’re looking at.
This has already been addressed a bit, but yeah, the titles “Mixer” and “Producer” have very squishy definitions. You can usually assume the person credited as mixer at least touch the knobs at some point. Heck, anyone who gets into the mixing process can change things radically, as has been described up-thread. The producer may have touched the knobs, but they also may have just bankrolled the thing.
(Ok, here comes the part where I rant about how I’m personally offended by broad social trends.)
With regard to Wallace’s production style, its a cavalcade of production practices that I generally hate. I hate hate hate hate the bass sounds he uses, just nasty, awful chorused-out nonsense. His guitar sounds are no better, because he’s using the same chorus. That chorus doesn’t sound any better on vocals, either. Seriously, he should make his $100 off it on ebay and quit using chorus on everything. He could then afford a gate for his snare track so he could control the cymbal wash the mic picks up or sends to the reverb during mixing - his pick, he could even do both with one unit!
That drum production is clean sounding, but it never sounds like an actual kit (no wonder, half of it is a sample), and that coupled with his over-use of chorus makes those records sound pretty cookie-cutter to me. Plus, really, learn how to mic a snare drum. Not all snare drums sound like your stupid white noise sample, Andy.
Yes, he made a lot of big selling records using that style, and every recording is a fiction. But, I far prefer Albini’s style, who generally prefers to see his job as documenting how a band actually sounds rather than re-making them in his style. He actually calls himself an engineer instead of a mixer or producer because he’s not trying to get in the way of the band. Even though Mogwai’s My Father My King is a splice of two takes done by Albini with a razor blade on the tape (hey, it is 20 minutes long); the drums sound huge, and that’s pretty close to what that drum kit really sounds like. The same thing with the guitar/bass sounds - they’re huge, but those are what those guitars actually sound like. If you only have a few minutes to spare, Put Your Finger in the Socket by Man or Astro Man? is only 3:21, and you can say the same things about it. Or compare them, if you have the time. Those drums (and guitars, and bass) sound very little like each other, but they’re both pretty great recordings. For yet another great recording that sounds different from those two, try Opened by the Breeders. Wallace’s style would have killed the subtlety of the drum work in that song, and all the snares would have sounded the same.
It’s still a fiction, but Wallace’s production style sounds like an outright lie in comparison to Albini’s. Plus, it just sounds like suck when you’re putting chorus on everything.
<sigh>, I’ll stop now.
Just watched and enjoyed it, but how is Liberty Devitto a “hired gun”? He joined Billy Joel’s band early and stayed for many years/records. Not exactly the same situation as most of the others profiled.
Because Billy Joel wasn’t in the band; he paid players to back him. Mr. Devitto never got any songwriting credit, didn’t get a percentage of merch sales, and played at Billy Joel’s whim. That’s a hired gun, as opposed to a partner/band member. The fact that his tenure lasted 30 years instead of 1 tour or album is irrelevant.
Ok, I guess I can see that. The Stranger was one of the first albums I ever bought (5th grade, I think…) and I clearly remember Liberty’s name from the back cover. Partially because it’s an unusual name, and partially because I wore the album out. I know that doesn’t translate into profit sharing… I think of a hired gun going song to song or band to band though. He certainly wasn’t a session guy.
Mr. Devitto first appeared on Billy Joel’s third album, Turnstiles.
And yeah, he was a session guy. He was hired to play drums. Period.
Jason Hook played exclusively for Mandy Moore for years, but he was still a hired gun. Then he played exclusively for Hillary Duff for years, but he was still a hired gun. Now he’s a member of F5DP, so he’s no longer a hired gun.
IMO, the difference is having a stake in the band. For the first year that he was with them, for example, Jason Newstead was not a member of Metallica; he was a hired gun. Some people go years this way; The Ramones experienced considerable friction over this because Richie was never actually a member, he was just a hired gun (and had to fight years later to obtain the copyright to songs he wrote for The Ramones).
I understand where your coming from, but the problem is with your definition of “hired gun”, not with the application of the term to Mr. Devitto. He was a hired gun.
Yes.
Per Billy, Liberty threw his drumsticks at him in protest of “Just the way you are.” being easy listening.
You are saying that’s why Billy fired him? Do you have a cite?
According to Rolling Stone, it was because Liberty confronted Billy about his drinking.