I am here to report that, to the adherents of the various “theories” that Giuliani threw out yesterday, the press conference was viewed as an unmitigated success and completely validated the theories by virtue of their being spoken aloud. Never mind their veracity – the fact that they were given airtime was enough to - to a certain contingent - vindicate their belief in these speculations.
Let’s not be like Republicans and say people should be killed. We are the Good Guys.
Yep. On another board the press conference was referred to as “very powerful”. The resident legal eagle over there pointed out that the Trump folks never bring up any of those points in front of an actual judge (because they like having a law license and not being in jail), but that is of no importance.
I just posted this in another thread:
I think you say this half in jest, but you may not be far off the mark.
Remember how Lindsay Graham was a very vociferous anti-trumper early on? I read somewhere that he went golfing with trump shortly after the 2016 election, and after that game he instantly became the syncophant he now is. The implication being that that game was possibly where Lindsay was presented with his kompromat. Because it’s doubtful he was persuaded to get on board by trump’s convincing policy vision.
I dunno, guys. I’ve been impressed by the general competence and professionalism exhibited by state and local officials throughout this mess. I’m holding out hope that these 2 local politicians will fly to DC, be harangued by the Cheeto and other self important members of the admin, and will simply say, “what you are urging is illegal and unethical, and we simply won’t do it.”
I can dream, can’t I? We’ll see.
Zero jest. Zero. Yes; IMO Lindsey was presented with his compromat.
This, by itself, sends up red flags all over the place.
“after a call from Trump”. Seriously? And now the Trumpster fire demanded that Michigan state Republicans report to his office to get their marching orders?
This is absolutely disgusting. It’s obviously disgusting.
I think we should encourage them to get Hugo Chavez into court. After all, Gouliani blamed him (in part) for the “fraud”.
The exhumation of the body would be interesting, anyway.
Now trump is getting ready to summon Pennsylvania Republican state legislators to come to the White House.
I am petrified. All he has to do is say “I’ll tell my fans in [relevant state] not to vote for you ever again” and they will probably crumple.
I think he’ll do far more than that. I think he’ll present (deepfaked) video evidence of them committing disgusting acts, and tell them that they will do exactly as he says. Don’t be surprised when these Republican politicians come away from these meetings singing Trump’s praises and being totally onboard with the fake “fraud” stories.
Just ask Mitch McConnell about kompromat.
But here is the thing. All that does is make a mess. The law is clear.
If the state certifies the results and appoints electors according to the law as written prior to election day (which means the electors are chosen by direct elections in the state), those electors have precedence. And all it takes to certify those results is the executive branch (which means Democrats in MI, WI, and PA). GA has no recourse anymore. AZ has one tiny lawsuit outstanding, and then Ducey will almost certainly certify.
All the state legislatures can do is attempt to send a second set of electors. That will muddy the waters, of course, and ramp up the “Biden is illegitimate” talk, but it won’t actually change who becomes President. In fact, it is very likely those electors will be found to be illegitimate since in order to unilaterally appoint electors those states would have had to make those legislative changes prior to election day.
So yes, be outraged. It’s disgraceful, un-American, and scandalous. But don’t be petrified. Have faith in our institutions to withstand a petty wannabe tyrant like Trump. And if our institutions can’t withstand him, then be ready to take action.
Okay. I hope you’re right. I just keep thinking about how Kavanaugh said something that makes me think he’s open to state “legislatures” choosing the electors. Trump would love nothing more than to get this case before the stacked Supremes if his machinations are resisted at other levels of state and federal law. Newt Gingrich said something about “legislatures” too.
Christ, I hadn’t heard that yet. I shouldn’t be surprised though.
I know that, but the fact that trump is being allowed to get away with all this, to get that close to the brink, is just astounding. Summon legislators from states that voted blue like some Godfather figure trying to make them an offer they can’t refuse?
As confident as I am that this naked power grab will ultimately fail, I have this feeling from back when the OJ trial was happening, thinking “they have DNA evidence, for God’s sake! No way is OJ going to get away with murder”. Then the verdict is delivered, and I was like “wha WHAAA…?”
Kavanaugh, and others, are correct that according to the Constitution states legislatures can determine how electors are chosen, even to the point of appointing them directly. However, Congress gets to set the time and place of the election. And that was set for Nov 3, by law. So the method of selecting electors is whatever was in place on Nov 3. And in every state that was direct election. I’m not aware of any legal method by which a state can refuse to let that process happen. Certainly the state legislatures (the folks Trump is apparently strong-arming) have no say in the matter at this point.
Now, they could perhaps select an additional slate under the guise of the election not being legitimate. But that would run afoul of federal law and those electors would not be recognized. Even more so because the Democrats have the House and at least 4 GOP Senators are opposed to the idea - and those are the two bodies that get to decide which electors to recognize when the votes are read.
Well, is he getting away with it? Approbation is pretty loud. And if any state actually tries this it will get louder, even within the GOP. He did just get voted out of office pretty solidly. His support in the media is now limited to outlets like Newsmax and OANN.
The lawsuits are all getting thrown out. No Governor has straight-up said they believe the election in their own state was fraudulent. Even party guys like Ducey are framing it as “let’s let them have their day in court”. And the only claims that could actually change the result (machine hacking, large-scale fraudulent ballots) are so laughably fake that the people actually making the claims refuse to show any evidence of it.
It’s the sound and fury of a childish loser. Some of his voters will follow him over the cliff, but I can’t imagine that enough people with the power to actually do something about the election results will even try. And if they try they will fail.
In our system, pretty much anyone can file any lawsuit they want - only to get it slapped down. Tons of people waste time/resources and cause stress by “exercising their rights/pursuing the process they are due.” So that aspect doesn’t bother me.
It IS increasingly telling, tho, that more high up Repubs at the state and especially fed level aren’t openly calling him on his BS, and acknowledging this as a blatant challenge to basic democratic principles. Doesn’t have to be ALL of them, but there sure should be a hell of a lot of voices raised louder than so far.
Do you really expect me to think that’s analogous? Come on. Burning a cross is a death threat, made by the most murderous terrorist organization in American history.
I appreciate your confidence. And I agree that the judicial part of the system has been holding up as it should. But now they’ve moved on from fighting in the courts to straight-up just trying to convince Repub legislators in key states that went to Biden to swap out electors. Yes, it may not be legal, but as this article that @Salem posted in another thread says, the laws have never been tested with this kind of hardball.
The scenario is now this: trump somehow convinces Repub legislators in Michigan (who are meeting with trump today), Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, to choose their own electors. Two sets of electors from those 3 states end up voting for Biden and for trump. This muddies up the process so much that it goes to Congress to decide the president. Repub-controlled Congress chooses trump. Yes, there will be plenty of outcry, but Repubs in power so far have shown that they will go along with just about anything.
But this is where it fails. The GOP does not control the House. The only way an alternate slate of electors is given priority is if both houses agree to do so. If they are split then the slate that is in alignment with the safe harbor provisions of the Electoral Count Act are given precedence.
I suppose Pence could just ignore that part of the law somehow. But then it would ultimately go to SCOTUS. And I suppose SCOTUS could just ignore the law entirely.
But if it gets to that, where the VP and SCOTUS are both willing to just completely ignore election law to appoint whomever they want, then America is well and truly lost.
And remember, it can’t be just one state, or even two. Trump needs three states to go along with this scheme, absent any evidence of fraud in any of them.
They do in the way that matters.