I shouldn’t laugh, but …
Well, at least you’re characterizing us as “people.” Thanks for that.
Maybe that’s too snarky. But the point is that, unrealistic or not, it’s NECESSARY. Because, if it doesn’t happen, begbert’s conclusion is only a matter of time.
It’s really not. Mitch McConnell could come out today and declare Biden as the clear winner of the election and it would change absolutely nothing. Not one single Trump supporter in the entire country would even question their beliefs if that happened. It would be an utterly empty gesture that would only hurt him and accomplish nothing, and I absolutely get wanting that to happen but it would be stupid of him to go along. I don’t get your people dig, what’s that about?
I doubt he bothered to ask himself the question. Toddlers don’t ask themselves, “What has just happened here?”, they only know they don’t like it, so it’s time for kicking and screaming.
But if he had come out and said this once the result was clear (the Saturday after the election) and gotten his Senators in line to agree, it could have taken a lot of the momentum out of this idiotic movement.
I strongly disagree. If Trump had accepted the results then maybe, and even then it wouldn’t be a sure thing.
I disagree. If McConnell, Ken Paxton and the other Republican state AGs and governors, and the Republican senators and representatives all declared that they believe Biden won a fair election, the people would follow. Following is what the MAGAs are good at, and if all those people told them the game was over, they would come around.
Come on, this is ridiculous. You see how they instantly turned on hardcore Trump supporters like Kemp for not going along and you think they would believe a establishment guy like McConnell? they are good at following Trump, if you go against Trump you are instantly the enemy.
They turned on Kemp because it’s almost the entire Republican leadership that is telling them to do so, not just Trump. Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue haven’t joined the call. The Georgia state Republican legislators haven’t joined the call. Republican state officials in the other red states haven’t joined the call. Only a few blue state Republican congressmen have recognized the reality.
It’s one thing for a general to lead his army when all the captains, colonels, and lieutenants are helping him lead. It’s another when all the lower ranking officers are saying one thing and just that one wackadoodle general says something different.
There’s no captains colonels or lieutenants, only Trump. You are either on his side and worth listening to or against him and “an enemy of the people”.
I’m mostly with DC on this. It’s why Republicans have been so afraid of crossing Trump: he’s the only one who has away over the Trumpists.
Even the MAGAs realize that their side needs senators, governors, state representatives, attorneys generals, cabinet officials, etc. if they want to accomplish anything.
They really don’t.
Trump supporters are now turning on Bill Barr. Just sayin’.
The entire Republican leadership solidly coming out in favour of upholding the democratic process would have made a huge difference. It would have taken a lot of wind out of the sails of a movement that now can individually isolate and threaten straggling individuals who find themselves standing up for law and principle in isolation. It would also have helped stemmed the wave staining the party itself as an accessory to overthrowing of the legitimate government.
Nice summary, and makes total sense, and very consistent with the idea that Trump is not the cause, but rather the effect, of what’s wrong with America. Many of us who prefer to be on the side of progress, equality and science tend to focus on Trump himself, his words, actions, etc. But perhaps that is exactly what his backers want us do. We tend to think he is using them for his own personal gain, when in reality, the relationship is much more symbiotic. They can promote their anti-progress, anti-equality and anti-science ideas and policies while everyone is fixated on the dancing clown.
Like Chris Rock’s comedy about how when a show tiger attacks the trainer, people think the the tiger went crazy, “Tiger didn’t go crazy. The tiger just went tiger!” And Trump just went Trump. You almost shouldn’t blame him, personally.
When thinking of Trump’s rise, I’m always reminded of a great George Burns quip: “Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving taxicabs and cutting hair.” Well, the cab driver made it to the top office in the country.
This is an excellent description of a sad-but-true element of American culture. These White Christian citizens see the removal of their unfair privileges in society as persecution of them and their beliefs, not the extension of our American ideals to all groups. The Christians have a persecution complex rooted in the stories of their origins during Roman times that they still emphasize. They look to places around the globe where Christianity actually is persecuted and conclude the ongoing forces of the devil to undermine Jesus’s message are still working, and that in the U.S. those forces are using more deceptive means to try to accomplish the same goal.
The White Americans see the growing non-white populations as a threat to their heritage. Growing Hispanic populations means a growing segment of the population who don’t even speak English all the time, and have to be accommodated. Blacks have always been looked down on, and the Whites can’t get their heads around the idea that Blacks are equal in intelligence and ability. Stereotypes and historical legacies play a large role in shaping the Whites’ perception of Blacks. The Black cultural elements like language patterns and family structures that were shaped by their exclusion from White society and by economic and cultural elements arrayed against them give the Whites justification for their erroneous beliefs.
So they perceive calls for justice and fairness as calls to unleash the unruly. They see attempts to be inclusive as strikes against their privileged position, and they don’t like to lose out. Poor Whites are even worse, because they don’t have much to lose to begin with, and don’t want what they have taken away. Not that that is what will happen, but that is perception.
So they back a demagogue that promises to restore their place in society, protect Christianity in the public and government sphere, recreate their jobs that left, support the existing energy jobs they have, keep foreigners from coming here, protect their guns, and cut taxes while increasing the military and reducing government interference. And he can slap a “Law and Order” label on it, too - protect them from the “criminals” in the urban centers.
No, I’m talking about a cultural shift in behavior that has been going on for at least a decade. I’m talking about hostility online protected by the anonymity of the web fostering the thought process that that kind of behavior is acceptable in real life. I’m not talking about showing up at Rallies for the Right with banners and signs, I’m talking about going into their crowds to start shit.
That doxxing shit is going on the other way, with Republican election workers getting death threats for doing their job correctly.
Yes, I agree we will see shitheads ganging up on their targets for threats, intimidation, and violence. And yes, collective defense will be necessary. And yes, political protest will become more violent in reaction to the violence against us. Yes, I am truly afraid that a real civil war is going to break out, only this time not framed by states, but by individuals and non-governmental groups. This won’t be the Northern States vs. the Southern States, this will be racial and political and socio-economic group conflict in the streets to make the 60’s Civil Rights movement look like a Pride Parade.
I’m not talking about outing racists. I’m talking about 4chan and Gamergate. The group Anonymous exposing detailed information of 7,000 members of law enforcement in response to investigations into hacking activities. How about Jackson Cosko, a House fellow for the Democratic party, allegedly posting private, identifying information of several Senators to Wikipedia.
Jesus Fucking Christ, are distorting my position worse than a Mobius Strip. This is a cultural phenomenon that has been growing for at least a decade, that is now culminating in the hostility that causes Trumpers to perceive Black Lives Matter as Blacks ganging up to take their things. They now perceive the Left of being guilty of massive voter fraud, so of course they feel justified with any level of response to overturn the fraud.
And yes, Trump encouraged and inspired the racists to come out in the open and become more vocal, more active, and more dangerous. And now the Republican Party is complicit in an overthrow of American Democracy.
Of course I don’t equate that with revealing the information about racists. Of course I’m not saying Liberals are as bad as Conservatives at this time and with the same level of disgusting behavior.
I’m saying that we didn’t get here in just the last four years.
If you are trying to ascribe that sentiment to me, you are way off base.
This is absolutely and unequivocally true, despite DigitalC’s many claims to the contrary. If - like in every normal election - 99.9% of people on both sides accept the result and move on, guess what happens? The country accepts the result and moves on. Sure, in this case if Trump kept tweeting all day about stolen elections, some of his followers would do the same, but it would have no momentum and it would die out. No fuel, no fire. But sadly the current GOP have no morals, no backbone, no decency, so here we are.
This better be at least a good tolchok to the coup:
ETA: great - just saw this now posted (5 hrs previously) in Clusterfuck thread.
hup hup gotta keep up…
Now squat, gopnik!