That’s quite true, and it’s part of why I’m not entirely sold on the ‘they won’t ask Paige to do anything for ten years; they’re just going to train her during that time’ theory. If Paige was valuable mainly because she could pass a background check, then why let her follow her wishes to participate in counter-culture activities such as the march?
I think Philip and Elizabeth are arguing about a multitude of issues and values relating to Paige.
But are you aware that both Philip and Elizabeth engage in many sexual acts with persons other than each other–and that they consider this to be part of their job (and in Elizabeth’s case, at least, part of their duty to their country)…? Would they consider their own sexual encounters patriotic and therefore righteous actions, while considering their daughter to be above such things? Would sexual approaches to dealing with their targets be considered honorable for themselves, but shameful for Paige?
Maybe. I would bet that, story logic aside, FX will avoid the issue if possible. Even considering the possibility is too explosive for basic cable–and that seems reasonable to me; such things should not be ‘normalized’ in any way.
I do think that if we were looking at this in a real-world context, however, it would be quite possible that making use of a teenager in this way would be considered acceptable “for the greater good” by undercover KGB agents.
As characters, Philip would completely avoid the subject on his own - no need for the writers to use god-mode to prevent it - if he ever gives in to the thought of training Paige.
Elizabeth would probably bring it up at some point, but probably wait until she was prepping her for an actual mission, and go into discussion of how one is meant to do “anything for the mission”, rather than explicitly give blow-by-blow pointers (double-entendre not intentional but apropos).
That march wasn’t counter culture. It was a nothing “nukes are bad” march that was meaningless. It wasn’t going to get her noticed. It wasn’t going to put her name on any lists. It was the kind of thing that suburban kids did in the early-80s. One of the reasons that Elizabeth is going to church with her is to make sure that her involvement stays at that completely innocent level, both as far as her counter-cultureness and making sure she doesn’t go too far toward the religious side, too. Paige is only very surfacely involved. She’s sending out flyers with her friends at church. But she’s also changing the channel away from press conferences. Her interests only go so far at this point.
In a real-world context, they may make use of a teenager that way. But young teenage girls are a dime a dozen. They had entire countries full of them. This particular teenage girl’s value is in her future. They could have army intelligence that doesn’t need to be blackmailed and won’t go rogue later on. Or a CIA asset who isn’t betraying the country out of spite and won’t change her mind 5 minutes later. Or someone in the diplomatic corps who isn’t caught up in the adventure and romance, is trained to fight back, and won’t confess that she’s a spy. If you’re playing the long game, which they certainly were at this time, it doesn’t make any sense to put her in that kind of danger as a young teenager (and in the process lose Philip, Elizabeth, and Henry) and waste all that potential.
They could have smuggled them across from Pakistan. Pakistan is one country where the VCR really did kill off the movie theatre, its only just recovered now. Everybody and his uncle was buying a VCR or a videotape recorder at the time.
There is something I have always wanted to ask of someone who has spent time living in Russia. It concerns Russian food and table manners.
Have you seen the movie, “The Falcon and the Snowman (1985)”, starring Timothy Hutton and Sean Penn? The Falcon and the Snowman (1985) - IMDb
It is a fine film on its own. But there is one scene in that movie where the Sean Penn character meets with a few members of the Russian Embassy. I think they were actually in Mexico
where this scene was supposed to have taken place. They met in a restaurant and shared a dinner meal.
The Russians (they were either diplomats or spies or member of the KGB - it was never made clear) were eating this dish and it consisted of what looked like simply some boiled
chunks of meat with little else accompanying this meat and they were eating it with a great deal of lip smacking even though it appeared to be the most unappatizing meal
imaginable. It appeared to be just disgusting. Is it common for Russian peo\ple to eat their meals with a lot of mouth sounds? I’m not debasing their culture. That is common in
several different cultures.
In fact, I believe the point of this scene was to show how Russians either take no pleasure in their food and will just eat most anything or perhaps that they rarely get appetizing
food and so they are grateful for most any kind of food and will enjoy even the worst tasting meals. I think one really had to see this scene to understand what I’m trying to describe.
But the Sean Penn character looked at these men eating that food and he just seemed perplexed that anyone would eat such a disgusting meal and appear to just wolf it
down without a second thought.
I’ve always wanted to ask someone who knows what it’s like to eat in the Russian culture or to eat in Russian restaurants, just how accurate is this scene? Do Russian people really eat
plain tasting food with no regard to any spices or to the taste of their food? And, how often do Russian people eat out in restaurants?
I’d sincerely appreciate any info you can give me as to the accuracy of this scene and to the accuracy of the way that Russians are portrayed with this food.
It’s possible, I do know it is. I like The Americans for many reasons not least its period accurracy, but I did struggle with this for a few reasons. Another would be the apparent media-awareness of a bunch of guys who, in many respects, are barely out of the stoneage.
I haven’t lived in Russia, but based on the Wikipedia’s pages on the cuisine of each country, Balkan, Russian, and Ukrainian cuisines haven’t evolved much past Medieval days. Back then, as I understand it, every family kept a cauldron of food going 24-7 and anytime they caught, harvested, or dug up something, it would go into the cauldron. So basically a never ending stew with no particular flavor that would be slopped out onto a plate. Probably, it was usually some sort of grain (like barley), some cabbage, and some chunks of meat. Pepper is probably a modern addition.
I once knew this real estate agent and he told me that one of the people to whom he rented apartments used to keep a flat pan of oil over a flame going all the time. His family would keep a kind of bred - it was like a flat bread - and whenever they wanted to eat, they would slap one of these flat breads onto the pan and that would get the bread nice and warm and crispy. In that way, it would be ready to serve with a topping of chopped eggplant or whatever vegetable the were eating at the time.
It sounded real appetizing to me and so I asked him to promise me that he would take me along so I could taste some. Well, he did and it was really delicious. I have tasted that kind of eggplant dish before. It was called “Eggplant Mousaka”. Really delicious If you ever get the chance try some out. I never forgot the taste. It tasted just as delicious as it sounded.
But I’m still interested in trying that Russian food. It sure can’t be as bland as it sounded.
Traditional Russian food is indeed pretty bland, like most cuisines from northern latitudes. When the world is your refrigerator, there isn’t much need for heavy spices to mask the flavor of spoiled food. Common seasonings in Russian cooking are garlic, dill, parsley, and basil (if you buy a package of fresh herbs at the supermarket, it’ll contain the last three). Things like chives, oregano, and majoram can be found both fresh and dried, but aren’t used a lot in traditional dishes.
This doesn’t mean that Russian food isn’t tasty. Dishes like Beef Stroganov, borshch, pirozhki (little meat pies), pelmeni (Siberian meat dumplings), and even plain cabbage soup can be quite good; they’re just not spicy.
Boiled buckwheat (not barley in my experience) is a common side dish; it’s usually smothered in brown gravy. Liver, for some reason, is also boiled and served with thick brown gravy.
Dishes from the Caucasus and Central Asia are often very spicy and heavy on cayenne, cumin, coriander, and cilantro. Over the years, they’ve found their way into Russian cuisine, but are usually made by cooks of those ethnicities who really know what they’re doing.
Yes, Russians enjoy eating out, particularly at ethnic restaurants. (Many places advertise that they serve several kinds of cuisine, which can be quite amusing—f’rinstance, Georgian, Korean, and Italian all on the same menu.) Over the last 25 years, though, I’d say the most popular place to eat out has been McDonald’s (KFC is also popular.)
In Soviet times, Russian cooking definitely took a nosedive; in canteens where people worked or studied, not much more than meat patties, potatoes, steamed cabbage, soup, and bread were offered. The lunchroom at my institute in particular had really bad food. This started to change under Gorbachev and perestroika; there was one co-op in particular right next to Red Square that was very popular, and I used to eat there often. (The place is now a great Mexican restaurant.)
I don’t know what the “diplomats” in your movie were eating, but I suspect it was some tasty local dish they had taken a liking to. No, Russians generally do not have bad table manners (certainly no worse than anyone else’s). However, Vladimir Kryuchkov, a former head of the KGB, was reputed to eat like a pig, as I suspect many other Old Bolsheviks did.
Moussaka is known in Russia, but it’s a Greek dish: Ground meat, eggplant, and other veggies, all baked in tomato sauce with a topping of bechamel. I love the stuff and make it at least once a year.
I live in St. Petersburg. Ya Amerikanets - I am American. Been here for 5 years. There are no 24/7 cauldrons. Or Perpetual Stews. The staple food is potatoes - like any number of countries, there’s always meat and veggies available. They’re more expensive now, of course. Sanctions and Winter do that. Yet the food remains tasty.
I grew up in NYC/LI yet I hadn’t tried Russian Cuisine till my brother moved into Forest Hills. It is not bland at all.
Also, I am preparing some tomato sauce for a truly kickass pizza tonight!
Proseletyzing Muslims funded by the Saudis, joined by volunteers from around the world, and advised by the Americans wouldn’t be media savvy? I think you underestimate the Mujahideen somewhat.
In the sense that it isn’t heavily seasoned, yes it is.
I should also have mentioned that traditional Russian food includes things like mushrooms and berries, which people enjoy picking themselves in the forest.
If you don’t hunt yourself, game and fowl (rabbit, venison; duck, pheasant) can be found at most markets. Fish is eaten a lot, and ice fishing is a popular winter sport.
In tsarist days, the upper class feasted on things like wild boar, or bear meat braised in mead. So traditional dishes could be quite elaborate.
Russians also eat a lot of pork and chicken, and lots of sausage.
Compared to when I was grad student in 1989-90, Russian supermarkets today are veritable cornucopias of food. I remember when you could literally count on the fingers of one hand the number of items on sale in your average supermarket; while you were standing in line for your baloney or sour milk, you could watch the sparrows fly down from the rafters and scavenge the macaroni and rice that had spilled on the floor. (Yes, things were that bad!)
What had to be one of the first pizzarias in Moscow was located not far from my institute. The pizza was basically Georgian flatbread covered with a plain tomato-ey sauce (think Campbell’s Cream of Tomato soup straight out of the can) and grated cheese, served with a side of marinated garlic. It wasn’t bad, but it certainly wasn’t what you’d get in a pizzaria anywhere else.
I made real pizza for my friends one evening in January; I had to scour the Russian supermarkets and hard-currency stores to get all the ingredients I needed, but could not find yeast, of which there was a deficit across the country (a common occurrence at that time)! The crust on my pizza was very crisp and crunchy, but it all went down well.
Nowadays, of course, good pizzarias abound in Russia.
That all seems fair to me. Though it still seems to me that Paige’s participation in anti-nuke marches is at least a *bit *risky–even if her name isn’t being placed on a list, a thorough vetting might turn it up. There would be witnesses to her participation.
Still, it might be acceptable to CIA or FBI recruiters, assuming that this is all they can find that could be considered an indication of something less than fanatical devotion to the US government.
All this talk about Russian culture and cuisine makes me hope for a series called The Russians. Could you imagine two American operatives living in Soviet-era Russia? That would be suspenseful.
Really interesting period coming up now - during the post-Brezhnev, pre-Gorbachev period, the USSR leadership seriously believed the West was going to attack. We have only quite recently understood this, I believe.
Things were right on the edge. They misinterpreted so many signs.
I guess we’ll see some of that played out. It’ll be fascinating to see the 90s from another paranoid political perspective.
Talking about paranoid political perspectives: In one of the schools where I taught English in the late '90s, there were still what looked like 1950s Civil Defense posters hanging on the walls; they showed how to take cover in a ditch in the event of a nuclear attack, and diagrams of fallout shelters made of logs and packed with people who basically have no room to do anything but sit quietly with their gas masks on. (There was also one portable toilet for everyone.)
Imagine my shock when I looked closely and saw when the posters were printed: 1986! :eek: