The Anti-Globalization crowd

Well Genoa is burning as feared. The anti-globalization mob has one again made sure that their message is a confused chorus of violence and hate.

There may well be serious issues when it comes to the globalization of the world economy, in fact I am sure there are, but what these protestors specific objections are I can’t tell because they are too busy destroying everything in sight.

They may well succeed in ending summits such as the G8 which will mean that there is no longer a forum for globalization concerns to be addressed. The end of global summits will not mean the end of global corporations continuing to dominate the world market.

The complexities that highlight the benefits and drawbacks of a global economy is apparently something that is simply to volitile to be discussed and so perhaps in the future it won’t be. We’ll simply close our eyes and see what happens thanks to the wishes of violent mobs.

I do know that not all those who support the anti-globalization cause favor the violence that clings to these events. This point has been made even clearer considering that peaceful demonstrators have come under attack from their fellow protestors.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010720/wl/group_leadall_dc_11.html

It is time now for those rational enough in this cause to realize that violence will not solve the problems of globalization to distance themselves from those who attend these events as an invitation to loot and pillage.

I’d love, just once, for someone to explain to me clearly what opposing Globalization means.

Do they oppose cross border trade? Immigration? The operation of one corporation in numerous countries? Foreign aid? International economic cooperation?

I confess I don’t understand.

I would also like to see a concise proposal for how stopping this demon “Globalization” fixes any of the world’s problems on a sustainable basis.

I would pay money for such information.

magdalene, you can make the check out to Kimstu—you’ll find everything you ever wanted to know, and much more, about the globalization/trade liberalization debate in a GD thread of a few months ago entitled “Protestors’ motivations” (OP pkbites). It doesn’t, of course, tell you an easy way to solve the world’s problems by halting globalization.

I agree with Blackclaw that violence and rioting are not good ways to draw attention to any cause. But I’m grateful to the peaceful protestors who are going through all this to stand up for their views. (I’m also kind of troubled by the fact that without violence, it’s difficult to get any attention paid to you of the sort that actually seems to influence decisions at this level. After all, I’ve seen things like the NAFTA side agreements and policy changes at the WTO described as directly influenced by aggressive protests. Violence is wrong, but are the nonviolent getting listened to?)

I do agree that violence is not the answer.
However:

The media seems to blow any violence that happens out of proportion. They usually descrive the protesters as “anarchists”, implying that the only alternative view to global capitalism is anarchy. They will only report on the violent minority, the peaceful majority are not paid a lot of attention. My friend recently went to an anti-capitalist demo in London. Her experience was that the great majority of the protester were peaceful, but that the whole event was aggresively policed. Police apparently surrounded (non-violent) protesters and did not allow anyone to leave, not even to go to the toilet.
So if you think that globalisation might possibly not be superb you are automatically a dangerous anarchist terrorist who needs to be surrounded by the police.
From experience I will have to warn that what you see in the press is a highly biased view. After all, your T.V. channel does not want to lose advertising revenue, does it?

I would like to know what proportion of the 100 000 protesters in Genoa are actually the violent shit-disturbers. If it was anything like my experience in Quebec City, in which the violent contingent couldn’t have been anywhere near what they get every year at the St-Jean-Baptiste parade, then the violence can be similarly laid at the feet of the police.

It’s a sort of tacit question-begging. “The police had to be violent because the protesters were violent. How do we know the protesters were violent? Otherwise the police wouldn’t have had to be.” And by and by, everyone “knows” that the protests were swarms of thugs taking over Quebec City. And now, Genoa.

You do not need to evacuate and gas a city in order to stop 100 violent people, but that’s what the police chose to do in QC. Protesters do not have the power to drown an entire area code in tear gas. Protesters do not have the power to either avoid or encourage the use of rubber bullets, fences, or water cannon. If the police choose to do these things, they will happen, regardless of what the protesters do.

And now, a protester has been shot and killed. And of course the blame will be placed on the protesters for this. But the protesters were not the ones who decided that deadly force was necessary; the police, who had the power and who could have reacted in any way they pleased, did. They drove the tank that ran him over.

(But really, what do you expect from a government consisting of a press-baron prime minister in coalition with two upper-case-F Fascists and the man who once said “there is a surplus of democracy in the world which is interfering with the free flow of capital and investment”?)

Make no mistake. Protesters, including the minute proportion of every protest that are violent, are responsible for their actions. But so are the police, and their actions were unacceptable in QC and even more so here.

There can be no conceivable defense for physical and chemical assaults, deprivation of freedom of speech and movement, and the use of deadly force on people because they are in the same area code as some other people who are violent.

The European media outlets I’ve seen are portraying the death as a result of heavy-handed policing, and even fairly conservative papers seem to be questioning the Italian government’s tactics in Genoa.

magdalene:“Do they oppose cross border trade? Immigration? The operation of one corporation in numerous countries? Foreign aid? International economic cooperation?”

Unfortunately, the answer to your questions is, none of the above. I don’t have the time right now to give you a really good answer; but I’ll do my best from off the top of my head.

By and large, what people are protesting against is how their governments are using the power of the state to enforce the agenda of multi-national corporations–an agenda that has usually not been approved by voters and is often against voters’ interests. Sometimes this involves a small nation’s acceptance of loans in exchange for the removal of “protections” that for decades have subsidized a local industry on which a large number of native people depend. Multi-national corporations want to end such subsidies so that they compete more cheaply with those domestic producers–the end result of which is typically to put domestic producers out of business. So such people end up ruined and part of an ever-expanding global pool of cheap labor. If there were great jobs waiting for such people maybe this wouldn’t be a bad thing. But, of course, there aren’t. In some countries this has led to families resorting to sending their children to work as factory laborers or prostitutes to survive.

Typically those who oppose this process aren’t against the loans or against foreign investment. They recognize that these are poor countries that can benefit from industrialization. They simply want it be done in ways that use the power of the state to protect the country against just being ravaged. So, for example, they want to see environmental protections built in, or conservation of national resources, or the institution of an appropriate minimum wage; and they want to make sure that citizens get to take part in the decision-making.

It’s a very complicated issue b/c everybody wants to see “progress” for developing nations: but so-called “free traders” (in actuality “free trade” agreements have all sorts of deals built into them and aren’t any more “free” than anything else) are often willing to ignore the severe human and environmental costs, whereas their opponents want more democratic participation on the part of average people, and more effective use of national governments to minimize the human and environmental costs.

Of course, in a highly developed nation such as the US or in Europe, the problem is somewhat different. Here the challenge is to build up the position of foreign laborers so that the excellent standard of living enjoyed by Western laborers isn’t undermined b/c of cheap and highly exploited international labor. For example, in 1995, the average cost of employing labor in China was 50cents/hour; in Germany it was (if I recall rightly) over $20. Naturally multi-national employers would like to shift as much of their labor costs to countries with a pool of cheap labor (not to mention no safety standards, or regulatory oversight, etc.). But even they are aware, to a certain extent, that they do so at their own peril. That is, many Mercedes Benz factory workers actually drive a Mercedes Benz; but no worker being paid 50c or even 5.00/hour can do this. So multi-national companies try to have it their own way as much as possible; cutting costs where and when they can by exploiting cheap labor; but trying not to destabilize the Western consumer economies that they depend on.

Some say that Western workers will simply become highly educated technical employees. But have you noticed any great plans afoot to turn laid-off factory workers into engineers or computer programmers? And the other problem is that even these skilled workers can be hired much more cheaply in other countries. To maximize profits a company might want to use engineers from India, computer programmers from Russia and teenage girl factory labor from Malaysia all to reduce labor costs to the bare minimum. This leaves open the question of the US or European countries that are meant to buy the product this company produces when their engineers, programmers, and factory laborers have been cut out of the picture.

Right now, the people most aware of this trend in the US are the factory workers who’ve been losing their well-paid jobs for decades; but it’s begun to affect workers higher up the ladder as well. And then there are those civic-minded, people who are simply concerned about what is going on in other countries on humanitarian and environmentalist grounds. They also have a right to be concerned since their taxpayer money and their US government are being used to support these “globalizing” activities but in ways that very few voters understand.

I hope this gives you some sense of how complex the issues are.

And I will accept any form of payment you have to offer :wink:

Here, btw, is a link or two.

This one’s an interview:

http://past.thenation.com/cgi-bin/framizer.cgi?url=http://past.thenation.com/issue/991206/1206forum.shtml

In this link the author explains how the North American Free Trade Agreement “has enabled multinational corporations to usurp the sovereign powers of government, not to mention the rights of citizens and communities.”

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20010430&s=greider

Actually, the best thing about the globaliztion debate is how fascinating it is. I became interested, much as you did: with a sense of confusion and dismay

I became interested, I’d meant to say, as you did, with a sense of confusion and dismay. But since that time I’ve found that looking into these matters is really intellectually satisfying as well as socially important. Good luck!

Overview

FWIW, magdalene, I see the movement as a very loose alliance of very disparate groups. Some groups have concerns directly related to Globalisation / Capitalism, others use the movement as a vehicle for their own agenda (in Genoa, that second group is primarily the ‘Black Block’ Italian Anarchists who are interested in attacking any and all vestiges of ‘State’ – i.e. not related to the movements aims).

It is difficult to identify a core ‘cause’ in the old fashioned Vietnam / CND / Apartheid sense, one that we can readily understand and form a view.

As I understand the confrontation on the first afternoon (Friday), the peaceful protesters and Anarchists were completely separate until the Anarchists marched into the area where the peaceful crowd had congregated and began confronting the police. The police went overboard and a bloody great melee ensued.

Interesting images so far. I see water cannons being used against people rattling a fence and cars burning unattended. As is usually the case, Genoa will be a battle for media friendly imagery – on what side of the fence are the people who own that medium ?

I disagree with the idea that the media is overblowing the proportion of violence. I put forth the arguement that supporters of the anti-globalization cause are desperate to downplay how violent and sociopathic some of their members are. Injuries among police and protestors are running about one to one at the moment.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010720/ts/group_leadall_dc_14.html

If it was all the fault of the police, you’d expect to see the numbers a little more lopsided. Heck I expect to see more lopsided numbers even if the police are acting with restraint. They have the protective gear and training, yet the rock and fire bomb throwing thugs are bringing them down in almost equal numbers.

The fellow who was killed was shot while smashing a fire extinguisher into a van. Getting your head smashed in by a blunt object will kill you just as dead as gunfire will.

It’s time for the rational protestors to seperate themselves from events like this. It is unreasonable to expect that police will be able to seperate the peaceful protesters from the ones hurling rocks at them in crowd of thousands.

I have seen smaller anti-globalization protests conducted with much less insanity. (Although at the one we had here in Cincinnatti some of the protesters felt the need to try and turn over someone’s car…) I do believe it is possible for a peaceful march to convey a strong message. And until I see such action, I have no interest in learning what they have to say about globalization because what they are saying through their actions of looting and violence, and through the inaction of peaceful protesters to condemn such actions, is that it is perfectly acceptable to injure others, to inflict damage on local businesses, and still claim the moral high ground.

They throw Molotov cocktails at the St. Jean-Baptiste parade?

Jeez, I’m coming up next year!

What inaction? In your own OP you state that violent protesters fought with non-violent ones. In Quebec City, every time I saw a protester being violent I saw tens more yelling at them to stop and moving away from them.

It is possible to believe both that violent protest is wrong and that police brutality and economic violence are far, far too severe.

This thread is going exactly the same way the politicians want the weekend to go: Focus on the violence to take the heat off their inertia and make sure the media ignores the overwhelming majority of peaceful protests as well as the damn issues.

Blackclaw – You’re spouting nothing more than a conditioned response (“Oooh, those naughty tree hugging extremists”) – and you underline that by citing goddamed Yahoo News link ! God help us - you do recall that little problem Yahoo had with ignoring French Law ? It’s kind of symptomatic of part of the problem.

How about looking beyond the extremely bloody obvious and focusing on issues rather than distractions ?

BTW, nice post ** Mandelstam**. I agree the complexity of all this bears a lot of research before forming opinions.

BlackClaw:

Perhaps you were distracted while Kimstu and Mandelstam were posting. There is no single “anti-globalization cause” to which every protester professes him- or herself to be a member, except insofar as each of the protesters is opposed to some particular facet(s) of the conception and/or implementation of current economic neo-liberal global policy. Thus, some people are protesting what they perceive to be abuses against the environment, and couldn’t give a sausage about austerity measure and the resulting subsumption of debtor sovereignty; some people rail against the austerity measures and couldn’t care less about the environment. Others care about both, or neither, to varying extents and degrees. And still others like to smash stuff up and behave like violent, sociopathic fuckheads. Here’s a tip: Fuckheads exist in all denominations and stripes. It’s fatuous to judge a given group by the lowest of its members. All pennies are coins, but not all coins are pennies. Would you like me to draw you an Euler diagram?

Thank you for the answers, folks. Obviously the issues are very complex, and there is no easy solution.

I spoke with many, many World Bank/IMF/Globalization protestors a year ago in D.C. and my impression then was that a) it was a bunch of very disparate groups, b) there exists no comprehensive mission statement or articulation of principles, and c) many were caught up in the street theater activism but few could explain what was actually going on. The protest effort would do well to cultivate well-informed, articulate, polished spokespeople who can handle press and conversations with decision makers, decide which issues are worth fighting for balls to the wall and which can be left for another day, and keep the violent idiots out of the media as much as possible.

I believe the violence between the anarchists and the other protesters was more a case of the anarchists momentarily running out of other targets than it was of peaceful protesters trying to rein in the violent ones.

I simply see too many excuses being offered by the protesters for the violence. Blame is always being passed onto the police. Members of the mob seem very reluctant to take responsibility for their own actions. Yes, the police can over-react. Yes, officers can be very brutal. But a more common reason for such reaction is fear. Police are entering hospitals at an even rate with demonstrators. Let’s face the facts, this ain’t no Ghandi march.

I’m not asking the peaceful protesters to try and confront the violent lunatics, I’m suggesting that they stop being their tool.

Your reply is childish. It does nothing to refute my position. You offer no evidence to counter the idea that many of these protesters are violent thugs and that if the more rational protesters want to deliver a coherent message that they should distance themselves from those thugs.

And my horrid Yahoo link is to a Reuters news story so what’s your problem? It was a Reuters reporter that witnessed and photographed the death of the one protester so you should be glad that they were around to give an objective account.

Perhaps Blackclaw should recall that the Mahatma starved himself twice, once for over forty days, to stop rampant violence among those who claimed to be his followers.

Large crowds and violent passions are breeding grounds for violence. Revolutionary ideology does not lower the passions of the mob.

Furthermore, as one who is likely not immediately affected by the Rape of Salome allegedly perpetrated by multinational corporations, perhaps you should tone down your sanctimony.

MR

I am aware that it is a vast myrid of causes that are vying for attention. I am also aware that the majority of these groups are nonviolent. I am merely proposing that the spectacle has destroyed the messages. Indeed there are so many messages that none stand out. And with the tragic violence that accompanies these hundreds of messages, none have even a chance of being heard.

I am not saying that there are not points to be made, that there are not cautions we should heed as the world becomes more globalized. I am saying that the violence may very well end the discussion and from that there will arise no forum in which to raise our fears.

But this movement has no one leader. And I hear few cries for restraint and many cries of “blame the police.”

Perhaps my presence in Cincinatti may explain my lack of tolerance for mobs.