The Arizona state legislature has passed a bag ban ban- a law banning cities and counties from banning single-use plastic bags at stores. Will someone pass a bag ban ban ban next?
I’d be happier if the bags were less fragile, so that those of us who want to reuse them (for things like emptying cat litter) could reliably do so. I think they make the ones at our grocery store (Giant Eagle in Pittsburgh) out of wet toilet paper, just based on how durable they are (not).
It’s a holier-than-thou attitude on both sides. My ecological practices are more ecological than yours, so I’m going to force you to agree with me.
There’s a lot of truth to this. I know people who spend a lot of time and energy on recycling, and little or none on easy home efficiency measures, which is a wild mismatch of priorities from an environmental perspective. But friends will notice one and not the other. And recycling is associated with ecological purity while home efficiency is not.
Even the plastic bag ban probably has much of its traction from people not liking the sight of plastic bags blowing around in the wind, since plastic is not obviously better than paper from an overall environmental perspective.
I don’t know if the AZ legislature had any idea what it was doing here. I doubt it, because it is the AZ legislature. But I don’t think the decision to ban bag bans necessarily reflects something other than good policy judgment. An even better policy judgment would be to tax disposable bags of both types to account for their externalized social costs and incentivize consumers to use re-usable bags.
I use my bags 3+ times each. Use 1 to get groceries home, Use 2+ to take recycling to the dumpster, and when they get nasty, I pick up dog poop with them. Although I use my reusable bags when the plastic bag holder is full.
I certainly don’t like having to avoid hitting them with my car. I remember once my mom got one tangled up somewhere in the underside of the car, and had to stop and get it out.
I also heard that plastic bag trash is more hazardous than other trash to marine animals. Is that true? (Of course, even if it is, that’s not going to be much of a problem in Arizona.) I know I worry more about my toddler getting hold of a plastic bag than I do about her getting hold of a paper bag.
They’re useful for many re-use purposes, like emptying cat litter or dealing with diapers. That is, if they don’t fall apart on the first use, or generally have holes in them, the way the ones from our grocery store do.
Plastic trash is a big problem, and AZ bags still contribute to it because the production of the bags involves waste and environmental damage.
But paper production is also pretty destructive, and contributes more to climate change, which also ain’t good for marine mammals. People concerned about such things should just use re-usable bags when possible.
Yeah, we find a lot of re-uses for them around our house too. Even those we mostly use re-usable bags, we always manage to accumulate a dozen or so plastic ones a month. We’re not quite hard core enough to be scooping our dog poop in reusable containers. 
I often get the feeling that they’ve been out in the sun a bit too long. Maybe this is also the problem with Florida.
I’m not sure about that climate change contribution. Paper grocery bags are generally made out of unbleached Kraft paper which in an integrated mill is often a net producer of energy. Sure, it adds some CO2 to the atmosphere, but the carbon in the bag is reusable, and if disposed of properly, sequestered in a landfill, and if sustainable forestry practices are followed is at least carbon neutral. I’ll grant you that when you draw the box and start adding up “sources and sinks” of carbon a lot depends on where you put the lines.
I heard that the problem with plastic bag trash was that marine animals might mistake it for jellyfish, eat it, and gum up their insides. (This thread has made it quite obvious that I am neither a car mechanic nor a marine biologist) That’s probably not much of a problem in Arizona.
Because it’s composed of bog bon-bons?
If they added a contingency to also not let people like Target use those really big bags because sometimes people buy really big stuff, they could have a big bag ban ban ban.
It must be wonderful to live in a state like Arizona where all the big problems are solved and the legislature is reduced to writing bag laws… :rolleyes:
But who would Pebbles play with? A Bamm Bamm ban would be terrible!
Arizona lives up to its reputation as the most southern state of the southwest yet again!
I haven’t done the research either way, but I had read in some of the “paper or plastic?” environmental articles that paper bag production is a bigger contributor to climate change. I’m sure you’re right that it depends a lot on how you draw the lines. For example, do you count the tree removed for the bag as a net gain in CO2 because of the absence of the tree? Or do you count the forest planted for the purpose of producing paper as a net sink of CO2?
Where I live, the city instituted a $.10 / bag charge on all vendors. It’s not breaking any banks, but it is interesting to see some people walk out of grocery stores with their arms full of unbagged goods because they are protesting the new law.
‘Take that, California !’
I think you got the reason for the law.
In the sane part of the country I live in, plastic grocery bags are banned and paper ones cost money, so a vast majority of shoppers bring bags. Plastic bags for vegetables and other produce are still allowed, so we get plenty for picking up dog poop.
I do have one excellent use for plastic bags though. Putting over the heads of Arizona’s Republican legislators.
I thought it was funny that in California, they banned plastic bags because, officially, they’re not reused. However, you can’t wash paper bags, so you’re not allowed to reuse them. How-however, plastic bags are… washable…
The town where I buy groceries has a 10 cent charge on plastic bags. No biggy, I got me some reusable bags. They are kinda nice, they really hold a lot.
But, dammit, the plastic bags are handy for all sorts of stuff. Soo… I just ordered a thousand of them from Amazon…