The best Trek series

Cafe Society
21

First. let me state for the record that my user name has nothing to do with the ST series.
Second, pretend I inserted Poly’s entire post here, which I agree with 100% and just want to add to.

I suspect it is difficult for anyone growing up post Star Wars to understand the miserable state of non-anthology sf in the early 1960s. Twilight Zone was good, but it was actually mostly fantasy. The Outer Limits had its moments, but for every Demon with a Glass Hand there were two monster episodes. There was Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea with its yawn nuclear sub and Venusian monster of the week. There were the other Irwin Allen shows, all more or less for kids, which had the simple Gilligan’s Island/Fugitive plot - characters try to get home and are thwarted. I was a kid, and my intelligence was insulted.

The we had Star Trek, which was the only series show that in any way resembled the good sf I read, and which didn’t treat its audience as children. Star Trek existed in a real galaxy with a real Navy-like command structure. There were of course interesting and adult themes. It was actually the first show I remember which understood you can’t go faster than light by pressing the accelerator harder. So Star Trek was absolutely revolutionary in getting sf right on network TV.

I’ll be a bit bold here and say the characters on TOS were at least as good as those in any other Trek series. More characters are not necessarily better - 3 is a perfect number in lots of ways, and 3 major characters work really well. They are archetypical - id, ego, and superego, they all fit on the screen together, and their interactions are consistent. There is also growth in the relationships over time.

Next, TOS had far better humor than any other series (and I admit I only saw a few episodes of Enterprise before I gave up.) I’m not talking just about Trouble with Tribbles, even the Doomsday Machine had the kind of humorous banter in the middle of a crisis that runs true. “Gentlemen, I suggest you beam me aboard.”
Also, TOS got real sf writers to write for them (TZ did also) and, even better, let them write their own kind of story. Amok Time is a perfect Sturgeon story. Wolf in the Fold is a perfect Bloch story. That added a lot of richness to the show.

I think Roddenberry’s naval experience made the environment of the Enterprise a lot more realistic. But I think there is another factor. I’ve been watching Have Gun Will Travel on Netflix, a show I watched as a pretty young kid, and I’m impressed about how adult it is. Roddenbery wrote for that show, and I suspect he learned a lot about writing for adults, not kids, even in a genre usually pitched to kids.

22

I grew up with TNG, so it’ll always be my favorite. It’s biggest problem was it’s inconsistency. There are some truly awful episodes - especially in the first two and last seasons. At it’s best, though, it was better than any other Trek series.

Deep Space Nine is much more consistent, and had less completely useless characters. But the Bajorans were annoying. And before the Dominion arc really got under way, it wasn’t that good.

And I understand how groundbreaking the original was, but that’s doesn’t make it the best. It doesn’t really do anything better than the above two series.

As for Voyager and Enterprise, pure dreck. I don’t know what possessed me to watch them.

23

I have always liked a lot of the minor characters/guest stars from DS9, like Andrew Robinson as Garak, Marc Alaimo as Dukat, Jeffrey Combs as Weyoun. There are a lot of other people that had only one or two appearances but were really good in them.

And where the heck were all you DS9 lovers back when the show was on? I know for a fact I was the only person in North America watching it during its first run, at least to judge by all my Trekker friends who couldn’t believe there was another current Trek show besides TNG. And I remember the unbridled joy everyone had when it was announced Worf was going to be moved to DS9 to bust some heads…the general consensus at the time seemed to be that was all the show needed to make it better, which in this case meant exactly like TNG.

I liked DS9 the way it was, it wasn’t supposed to be the same formula as TOS/TNG, but it seemed your casual fan couldn’t enjoy a darker, more nuanced show.

24

I liked TNG the best overall out of them all, with DS9 and TOS tied for second.

25

You are not alone. Brooks was the major reason I never watched DS9. I can’t stand him.

26

Yeah, I do remember there were a lot of naysayers during DS9’s run, complaining about how it was taking Roddenberry’s optimistic vision of the future and making it depressing and dark.

Um…that’s the GOOD part, people! I like TOS. I like most of TNG. But they were both happy jewel-tone settings…the ships were clean and bright and so were the people. Not a systematically corrupt official in the whole of Starfleet (excluding ones that were taken over by slugs or bugs). The McCarthy analog admiral was taken down in one episode. Nobody ever went vigilante or turncoat unless it was against their will. Except for the very rare two-parter, everything got wrapped up in an hour.

DS9 WAS dark. It WAS morally ambiguous. Starfleet officers WERE, on a fair number of occasions, defying Starfleet Command because they saw a higher moral duty to their current duty station than to headquarters. Even religious leaders were morally ambiguous (tell me Kai Wynn (oh, how we miss you, Louise Fletcher!) isn’t one of the greatest characters, with one of the most interesting and compelling character arcs, in any Star Trek incarnation!). The Federation and Starfleet were discovered to not be as shiny-happy-trustworthy-utopian as they had been portrayed before. The Founders and their unique ability made paranoia a safer bet than trust.

It was DAMN entertaining once things really started moving in the 2nd season!

27

Deep Space Nine. Dark, good characters like Garak, Gul Dukat, Quark. Nice story arc of the war.

28

#1 The Original Series
#2 The Animated Series

– Huge gap –

Everything else.

29

DS9 was the best.

TOS sucks ass and always has. Those who remember it fondly suffer from nostalgia, hindsight bias, and acid flashbacks.

30

Or perhaps you can say we prefered older style action and adventure tales mixed with well developed character interaction. Star Trek had the most action by far of any of the series, ship to ship or ground combat. It was I will admit simpler and less complex but it was more exciting at the same time.

It also had one huge advantage. No freakin’ Holodeck and the lazy writing that took far too great advantage of the Holodeck as a plot device.

31

I like next gen for the same reason everyone else likes “their” series. It’s the one that was on the most during the times when I was most impressionable. The scariest badguys of all time got introduced in TNG.

32

They did have Mary Ann, but got rid of her, I guess because her boobs weren’t big enough, or something. The actress in question was so moved by this show of confidence that she pretty much quit acting soon afterwards.

Oh, back on-topic. The lows of TOS were probably as bad as anything we’ve ever seen of Trek, it also reached the highest highs. TNG at its worst was merely boring and uncompelling; the worst of TOS bordered on the bizarre. But the best of TOS pretty much blows away the best of TNG (which did have a smattering of excellent eps here and there). DS9 had the best ensemble cast, and pretty good overarching plot.

33

That is a great point, so what was your second favorite? As I watched when there was only Star Trek and the Cartoon, I know I am prejudiced towards them. As I mentioned, DS9 was the next best IMHO. However by that time I was largely disinterested in Star Trek and stopped looking for it after a while. Voyager was the only one that actually crossed the line to stupid to me. It was the closest to Lost in Space and that is bad. Next Gen just generally was not exciting enough for me. Enterprise was too little, too late and I just didn’t bother after a few episodes.

:slight_smile: Kes is a good equivalent. I kind of recall people complaining about the Neelix and Kes sub-plot and so they got rid of Kes. Of course most fans wanted to see Neelix go away as I recall.

34

Picardo did a pretty good job for someone who loathed his role and the show he was on.

35

Mrr?? You sure you’re not confusing Picardo with Beltran?
And my vote goes to DS9.

36

It was successful, just not in the ways they measured it at the time. The demographics (young affluent professionals) kicked the asses of many of the “Country Comedies” of the time. If Fred Silverman was promoted to the head of NBC, and not CBS, in 1970, Trek would have had a long and fruitful run (tho how this would have affected the subsequent movie franchise I dunno).

[Keep missing edit windows]

To me, TOS will always be the most compelling (when at its best), but DS9 certainly had its share of grab you by the throat plots. There’s a decent sized gap before you get to TNG, then a yawning chasm before you reach Vger and Enterpoop.

37

It’s possible-I am remembering an interview I saw about a year ago where I would have sworn that Picardo very clearly expressed his dislike of his role and the show, but a 10 minute Google search turned up nothing, so I withdraw the claim.

38
  1. TOS - Insert Polycarp’s reply here. The interplay between Kirk, Spock and McCoy was unrivaled in any of the other series.
  2. TNG - Very good overall after the first season. It would have been better if Wesley had died early on.
  3. Enterprise - Also good after the first season. Jolene Blalock.
  4. DS9 and Voyager - Never could get interested in them. I watched DS9 for a couple of seasons but always found it boring. Voyager was nothing more than Gilligan’s Island. I hate shows where the premise is “Will they make it back home?”
  5. TAS - This is not the series that you’re looking for.
39

Good gad, his feet…

40

DS9 and TNG are tied for tops in my book by far. DS9 for its ambitious writing and darkness, coupled with its far deeper explorations of character and its terrific acting by Rene Auberjenois, Colm Meaney, Nana Visitor, Alexander Siddig, Andrew Robinson, and Armin Shimerman. (And yes, sometimes Brooks, although he did chew the scenery. I just think of Sisko as a bit of a drama queen.)

TNG because it was my first, and I love the entire cast because they feel like family; the series offers the most sense of wonder out of any of the shows for me. It’s just so dang much fun. Patrick Stewart can out-act any other Trek cast member under the table with one raised eyebrow tied behind his back. (I disagree wholeheartedly that he was declaiming or scene-chewing; dang, I think some people assume he’s acting Shakespearean just 'cause he’s got a British accent!)

Voyager I liked a few season 2 episodes … especially the Tuvix episode, Meld, and Basics pt. I. But after their second season they dumped Michael Piller, who I think was by far their best writer, and the show went even further into the crapper when they got their Barbie doll to play with and it became the Seven of Nine / Doctor hour.

TOS I respect for its role in launching the franchise. It’s cute and admirable. But I just don’t enjoy it much. I watched it long before TNG ever aired, so it’s not as if I expected it to be as glossy or modern as the newer shows.

And Enterprise I never could stomach. Too slick by half. I don’t know what they were going for, but it wasn’t working.