I entered HS 100% Brian (the year it came out) but managed to end up 50/50 Brian/Allison by the time I graduated because the weirdos (read: goths) and nerds overlapped, mostly via Dungeons and Dragons.
I thought I was 100% when I watched it as a teen in the eighties.
But now, looking back more objectively:
10% rebel
90% weirdo
90 percent Allison, 10 percent Brian.
My high school consisted of two main groups, with multiple sub-groups within. The two main groups were Poor Black Kids From The Ghetto, and Rich White Kids From The Lake. I was a poor white kid from the ghetto, so I fit in with neither group.
Though to this day I am proud to call myself a nerd, in high school I didn’t actually fit in with the nerds (see previous paragraph), and I wasn’t particularly academically-inclined anyway (I was a C student at best).
Mostly I was an outcast, a loner, a metal-head with a giant chip on his shoulder.
I dressed like Claire, but I felt like Allison. I would have dressed like Allison or the girl version of Bender if my mother would have allowed it.
As you should; the John Hughes movies were never about actual people but archetypes, and often pretty shallow ones that never really reflected either the true experience of teenagers nor the behavior of the authority figures they rebelled against. As deliberately absurdist as it was, Better Off Dead was a more accurate teen movie than anything Hughes directed or produced, and while The Breakfast Club wasn’t the worst movie he made (I’d rank Ferris Bueller’s Day Off as top, although the rapey Sixteen Candles is definitely neck in neck) it is not any kind of accurate representation of the angst of high school.
Everybody should aspire to be Lloyd Dobler; he isn’t perfect by far, but he is honest enough to admit that he has no idea what he really wants to do, except be awesome at kickboxing and spend as much time with Ione Skye as possible. Which, really, is the dream every ‘Eighties teenager should have had. It’s like a realistic verison of The Karate Kid without all of the weird Mr. Miyagi shit and the passive-aggressive imagined bullying.
Stranger
I couldn’t disagree more. Back in the day, I identified with The Breakfast Club so much, I wondered if John Hughes hadn’t stopped by my high school to research it before he wrote it. I knew a lot of kids like Brian - kids who were under such extreme pressure to succeed that they were driven near to suicide (remember that Brian was there because he’d brought a gun to school; which, not for nothing, would have gotten him a prison sentence today, even though it was a flare gun). Half the (white) girls in my school were Claire; well-off princesses whose wealth and status was as much a bug as a feature, once you dug below the surface a bit. And my high school’s principal was Richard Vernon, but for different haircuts.
One thing I never got about Better Off Dead was why everyone kept asking Lane’s permission to ask Beth out. a) They’d broken up! Why should Lane have any say in who goes out with Beth? b) Beth can make her own decision on whom she’ll go out with, Lane’s “permission” notwithstanding. This is the 80’s, not the 30’s.
This though I do also like Better Off Dead a great deal. My high school was full of jocks and Claires- jocks driving brand new giant Ford trucks and the Claire’s driving their dad’s hand me down BMW or their own new one. One of my friends (and he genuinely was nice- not a bully, not a trenchcoat mafia type) blew up his locker and he may have gotten suspended but no charges were filed. It wasn’t taken seriously, more a slightly dangerous but funny prank. He also had an unfortunate gun related accident (off campus) but only hurt himself. There were future doctor type kids that seemed very serious. The only group not represented in John Hughes movies was my group- nerdy horse-girls. Our principal was ok though- the only time I had detention (for being late), he scheduled it for a holiday so it didn’t happen.
What do you call Brian 4 years after graduation?
Boss! 
Better Off Dead isn’t supposed to be some kind of objectively realistic portrayal of teenage angst (obviously, I think, given the homicidal paperboy and the David Lee Roth hamburger); it is a representation of how Lane Meyer sees the world from his Beth-obsessed world of insecurity and despair. Having everybody (including the maths teacher) ask Lane if they could date Beth was just Lane feeling like everybody else has a shot with her but him, all the while he is actually overlooking the much cooler (and cuter) French foreign exchange student who fixes his car and shows him that he can ski the K-12. (She’s also kind of the anti-Manic Pixie Dream Girl, but I’ll save that for another discussion.)
John Hughes movies always contain these improbable, superficial archetypes (hence why everyone has to estimate their ratio of the different characters instead of just saying, “I’m 100% Claire”) with adults who are just pasteboard characters and goes to some fairytale conclusion (the kids from all the cliques bond over their shared angst, the girl from the wrong side of the tracks gets the cute rich boy, Ferris gets away with…whatever he got away with) that is kind of fun to imagine but has no basis in reality (e.g. the kids will be back to their own peer groups the next week, the girl is probably going to find herself used and rejected, Cameron is likely going to get the ever-loving shit beaten out of him by his father). A movie like Say Anything…, on the other hand, actually presents characters, both teenage and adult, who have complex inner lives and backstories and doesn’t give the impression of some neat and tidy conclusion, which is why it stands as a more enduring movie while rewatching John Hughes movies with their superficial characterization and often rapey subtext. Seriously, how is it at all okay that Jake gives his drunken-to-the-point-of-incoherency girlfriend to Farmer Ted so he can get with Molly Ringwald’s character? That shit is not okay even for the 'Eighties.
Stranger
Stranger, I agree with you about John Hughes’ films, but are you talking about Better Off Dead or Say Anything? They both had John Cusack, but BOD was the absurdist comedy; SA was the one with Ione Skye where he plays a kickboxer named Lloyd.
None. The whites(ish) at our school had no cliques.
Bit of a note here. I know the bit is to say Ted is guilty of rape…BUT he’s underage. And they both got blackout drunk. So who’s going to jail? Him and the 18 (i assume) year old blond girl?
Everybody should aspire to be Lloyd Dobler.
Really?
Let’s just break Lloyd down, shall we?
We have someone who obviously at best was way below average when it came to grades GPA, so he was looking at the local community college.
You are correct that he had no fucking clue what he wanted to do, but most kids in my high school at the time at least knew they were going to go to college and many of them knew what they were going to major in and a number knew what they were going to do for a career; doctor/ lawyer, hell one of the most stereotypical redneck kids in my class knew he was gonna work for the Forest Service and be a forest ranger.
But Lloyd is gonna be a professional kickboxer. Which is just grand except he SUCKS at kickboxing. And he’s moving to a place (England) which at that point in time had literally zero history or interest in kickboxing, professional or otherwise.
Oh and because he has such a shoddy educational and employment history he’s gonna be spending a LONG time on the dole, which no doubt will go over REALLY well with Diane, who he is mooching off of, while giving her NOTHING in return except his dong.
But you’re right. :rolleyes: Diane, you marry this man!! You grab him and rush down to the town hall/courthouse and pay your $50 or whatever and get married by the sheriff. Don’t wait until tomorrow or next week you do it this instant!!!
Lloyd Dobler is a loser.
Is he cute?
Actually that whole trenchcoat wearing all the time thing is REALLY creepy, but whatevs. :rolleyes:
Is he smart? Like, could I have a five hour conversation with him and not find myself glancing away for long periods or looking at my watch after an hour and maybe even hoping for a car accident to happen right outside so that could be the topic of conversation?
I REALLY doubt it. His little speech about what he does and doesn’t want to do and work for proves that he the farthest thing from what one could call ‘deep.’
Is he chivalrous?
Sure, but that doesn’t put food in the fridge or keep the lights on.
Is he a good and giving lover?
I’m gonna say, “eh.” :o Diane has never tasted any other dudes cock or gone though her LUG phase so her sample size is too small and there isn’t an evidence to say that Lloyd has had any other serious relationships.
Is Lloyd motivated?
Beyond being a professional kickboxer, the laughable impossibility of I have already covered and spending as much time as possible with Diane Court, not a lot going on. I’m sure Diane is just gonna love coming home to their cold, flat that smells like farts and unwashed socks (Thanks Lloyd!!) EVERY DAY after school to find Lloyd slumped on the couch in sweats scratching his balls and watching darts. I give it about 8 eight months.
Lloyd Dobler is a loser.
As for Say Anything vs Sixteen Candles, when I was in high school we had a sub for a month in chorus which meant roll in the VCR it’s movie time!! You have a choice, Say Anything which is set in Seattle which looks pretty shady about some weirdo who stalks the class valedictorian who’s dad happens to be ripping off the elderly and we get to listen to some truly terrible songs written by a girl about her supposedly abusive ex boyfriend, OR Sixteen Candles where you have a cute (though not to me) girl who pines for the cute older guy, who has a HAWT blonde girlfriend with HUGE, okay maybe not HUGE…let’s say ummmmmmm…adequate jugs AND NOT ONLY DO YOU GET TO SEE THEM BUT YOU SEE THEM WHEN SHE’S TAKING A SHOWER SO THEY ARE ALL WET AND THE WATER IS BEADING AND DRIPPING OFF OF THEM AND fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap. Plus you have the hi-fucking-larious foreign exchange student who hooks up with the jock chick. Throw in a semi out of control house party and a wedding where the bride has her ministrations and which one do you want to see if you’re a teenage boy back in the late 1980’s at school?
The answer of course is The Princess Bride which gets switched out for The Lost Boys (because of the Coreys.)
Jesus Scarlett.
Sometimes people loving each other is enough. Christ.
Now guess what?? Here’s the part where I take your side for a sec.
This is one of TWO MOVIES where the only reason John Cusack gets the girl is because something catastrophic happens to the girl’s father. This and High Fidelity.
Ok secs over.
Lloyd and Diane are young. VERY young. They have ages to figure it out. Also don’t forget…didn’t Lloyd spend a year abroad? As for Lloyds sexual acumen? (what a weird thing for me to be talking about) uhhhh…that scene in the car is one of the more realistic sex scenes in a movie. Given that he’s shaking physically after being with her, I’d say he was pretty moved by the experience and wasn’t exactly just a teo pump chump. Looks like he gave it his all.
Also you left out the boombox scene. The problem isn’t that it’s creepy and stalkerish. …if you haven’t been that person or been on the receiving end of something like that you haven’t lived…it’s that its just unhealthy to put yourself in a position where you feel motivated to do something like that if you get dumped.
I haven’t seen that movie in decades, so I don’t remember.
I don’t think there were any band fags (as we in marching band were known) in that movie.
I actually now have the same name as one of the characters, but I don’t think I became any more like her when I got married.
“LUG phase”?
Lloyd Dobbler is far from a perfect specimen of academic success, and I would agree that he and Diane Cort are probably not going to work out in the long term (although I’ve long given up trying to predict who will and won’t stay together), but Lloyd is a decent human being despite some pretty clear challenges, e.g. his parents seem to have abandoned him and his single parent sister, played by Cusack’s actual sister. But Lloyd is excited for the future, looking for a “dare to be great situation”, and has genuine concern for his friends and Diane, which essentially makes him a better human being that the collective whole of every character in every John Hughes teen comedy ever made. And while he clearly isn’t going to be a world champion kickboxer, I’d put good odds that he’ll find a career in promotion or another area where his enthusiasm and social skills will allow him to excel even if his ability to perform integration by parts is lacking.
Stranger
LUG = Lesbian Until Graduation
How exactly is he going to find a career without even an associates degree from a community college? I’m fairly sure the admission standards for colleges and universities over in England would be tougher for foreigners like Lloyd than for native students.
As for having genuine concern for his friends, you do mean all the dudes in his ‘crew’ that hang out and get drunk with him at the gas station and the annoying as fuck aspiring and hopefully failed angry woman singer songwriter, right? The ones that he leaves without so much as a “Well I’ll see you around” before getting on a plane and flying more than 8 time zones away because of a girl. Oh wait, it’s cool because unlike those so called friends Diane is just ecstatic with him mooching off of her.
And yes, I get that it’s “young/first love,” which leads people to do outrageously stupid things like getting on a plane and moving 8 time zones away with literally ZERO skills that would land him a job with a liveable wage. Honestly, can you see Lloyd working the grill in a McDonald’s wearing a Mickey D’s uniform? I sure as hell can’t.
And does he really have good social skills? That dinner at Diane’s house with her dad and the others was a wreck. His declaration, which I mentioned earlier is maybe “OMG SO KEWL!!” if you’re an idiot high school student watching the movie, but an adult is going to be, “Are you KIDDING me?!?” If Lloyd pulls that shit at a job interview, his resume is going in the trash and he’s getting put on the “DO NOT LET THIS PERSON IN THE BUILDING” list.
Now, having posted this and the previous post I must admit that my view has been colored somewhat by that teethgrindingly annoying stunt pulled a few years ago on the anniversary of the film when a bunch of asshats wearing trenchcoats and boom boxes blasting *In Your Eyes * .wandered through major cites.
And it has also been colored by Jon Cusack being one of the singularly unpleasant dickbags in Hollywood, but by some handwaving bullshit has managed to make a majority of people believe his personality is actually that of Lloyd Dobler
Seek help.
Stranger
The world needs Larry Darrells as much as it needs Gray Maturins.
Hmmm, I suppose we are all a mix of the five
Brian ( brain, follow the rules type ) 35%
Andrew ( jock ) 30%
John ( rule breaker / rebel ) 5%
Claire ( rich and pretty ) 25%
Allison ( strage and shy ) 5 /%